Point of Entry is forgettable, that's why. Fans just move from British Steel to Screaming as if it never existed. After British Steel it would have been a huge letdown, and it really isn't much better when viewed outside of its historical context. It is a decent album, but it just lacks memorable songs apart from Hot Rockin'.

Screaming is definitely an album of two halves, but I'd still give it a 4/5 because the best songs are excellent and some of the lesser ones are at least catchy.

There have been some retro reviews of S.F.V over the years that have pointed to its limitations, so it isn't like there is an uncritical acceptance of its greatness. Turbo's strengths and weaknesses have also been fairly assessed. It isn't a universally hated album by any means, at least not anymore, but it's rightly seen as one of their weakest with Halford.

?????

Desert Plains [one of the best JP songs of the decade full stop] and Heading Out To The Highway would beg to disagree with you there.

I do agree that Point Of Entry is kind of in a weird limbo, though. Sometimes JP would get into an odd mood when making records and that's the case here. Half of the album is great, and if the consistency had been kept up then we'd be looking at a connoisseur's choice for a favourite JP record, but the other half is just dreck, easily the worst stuff the band penned pre-1986. You Say Yes? Turning Circles? Just sub B-side material.

On topic, Turbo is shite, with a couple of exceptions [Turbo Lover, Out In The Cold] and very forced. No idea why JP tried to go for the lighter end of the spectrum, they didn't need to. They were an arena level/festival headliner band already in the States with SFV and Defenders and they had got to the top on their own terms. Defenders part 2 would have been perfectly acceptable in 1986, given the rising popularity of the thrash scene which proved that the market in the US for heavy music was very much thriving.

Ram It Down is even worse, and JP's nadir, because it's even more forced - the band are trying to desperately prove that they still 'rock' and the lyrics are flat out dreadful. However the real issue is the drum machine used on most of the album which sounds incredibly dated and pretty much dominates the songs. Blood Red Skies is actually a classic Priest track but the drum machine wrecks the studio version, and it really has to be heard live to be appreciated properly.

^ Agree with yourself, Cosmic, and hebb that PoE has a lot more to offer than just 'Hot rockin'' despite its overall unevenness.

Also agree that the drum sound is problematic on RiD. 'Blood red skies' is definitely worthy of being called classic as well.

But Priest's nadir? Sorry but this comment just cannot be taken seriously. Firstly, if 'Blood red skies' is a classic, then so is 'Hard as iron'. It's easily of the same calibre. The title track is a squeak below those 2 in terms of quality. These alone put it well above something like Turbo and nowhere near as weak as Demolition or Nostradamus for example - neither of which feature anything that could be called classic. RiD's lyrics are ridiculous in places - but this could be said of plenty of Priest albums.

Bit harsh on Nostradamus there, Rob. I listened to it a lot recently (when putting together a compilation of their material from Painkiller on) and, while it's definitely overlong and has some seriously poor, generic tracks (and those never-ending fucking interludes!), songs like Prophecy, Pestilence And Plague and the title track are all stormers - and certainly vastly superior to anything from Redeemer Of Souls, which is an unsalvagable, instantly forgettable, utter failure of an album and their actual nadir IMO. Yes, even worse than Turbo and Ram It Down (both terrible albums, but I'm going to give both a run-through again as they're being discussed here).

Edit: Listening to Turbo now and, as much as I dislike it, I found myself singing along to Turbo Lover. Dammit!

They've admitted that it came about because they wanted to get bigger. They were watching younger bands sell millions more and they wanted a piece.

That Highway song isnt bad but it just sounds like a tune they wrote in KK's garage. Having said that, unlike Maiden, Priest do know how to rock out.



It is a compromised album because half of the songs were actually written for Turbo as Turbo was originally planned as a double, so RID is a mix of offcuts from that album and new songs that were written relatively quickly and it shows. It's a pure salvage job.

It isn't a bad album, but I don't think it is better than Turbo. They are probably about even.

Fact. And yes, Redeemer is their creative nadir with Rob. But the Owens albums are just as forgettable, and sound like shit.

I like both Turbo the album and song.

Fair assessment. Except that your earlier point about Turbo's real problem being the song-writing was true - but its sound certainly didn't help matters. And the fact that the songs that did work on RiD worked very well. That coupled with its return to the Screaming/ Defenders style makes it the superior album of the two.

Redeemer has some good songs, but we won't go down that road again.

Robit, I don't think RID sounds particularly good either.

Dragonaut and Halls Of Valhalla are just about scraping the bottom level of acceptability, but that's as good as that turd gets. Appalling album.

It doesn't sound great, no. That's one of its obvious flaws. Luckily that doesn't mask the brilliance of its peaks.

Battle Cry is a choon

Redeemer was their best since Painkiller. Which doesn't say a huge amount maybe. Some of the extra tracks and bonus stuff was appalling, but the basic album had some very good peaks.

Angel Of Retribution pissed on it.

Having listened to Turbo and Ram It Down again recently (as well as the two Owen albums), I can confirm that it is indeed their worst album.

Angel was definitely better, but I agree with Rob that Redeemer has its moments. None of those moments are equal to Judas Rising or Hellrider though

I found it to be consistent. As in consistently underwhelming, uninspired and dull.

"Demolition" is comfortably Priest's weakest album in my opinion but I don't have much time for "Redeemer Of Souls", "Jugulator", "Point Of Entry" or "Nostradamus" either. Everything else is at least worth a listen.

As for the "Point Of Entry" tracklisting, I find it to be extremely inconsistent. "Desert Plains" & "On The Run" are quite brilliant but apart from those only "Hot Rockin" & "Solar Angels" hold my interest. "All The Way" is absolutely atrocious & so is "You Say Yes"!

1. Sin After Sin - 5
2. Sad Wings 5
3. Stained Class - 5
4. British Steel - 5
5. Screaming For Vengeance - 5
6. Defenders Of The Faith - 5
7. Painkiller - 5
8. Killing Machine - 5

9. Ram It Down - 4

10. Turbo - 3
11. Redeemer Of Souls- 3
12. Angel Of Retribution - 3
13. Rocka Rolla - 3
14. Point Of Entry - 3

15. Nostradamus - 2




16. Jugulator
17. Being crippled in a motor vehicle accident
18. Demolition

I'm slowly coming around to Turbo. On its own merits, as a hard rock album it's actually alright, but in comparison to most of their other albums it comes up short. 3/5 would be about right. 4/5 is a nonsense rating for Ram It Down (2/5), though and Redeemer... is no better than 1/5. I can't fathom this regard in which it's held.

Ram was a 3 with the potential to be a four, with a proper drummer and a bit more focus. It does have some 4 or 5 fist songs.

No fucking way is Redeemer as good as Angel Of Retribution, much less Rocka Rolla or Point Of Entry. They may be weaker than the acknowledged classics, but they at least have some great songs. Even Nostradamus has its moments once you cut away the dead wood.

Redeemer is all dead wood, it is a nothing album, simple as that. It isn't even worthy of a band like Primal Fear, much less Judas Priest. Or at least, Priest with Halford. The ill judged lumpen shite of the Ripper era is worse.