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 Celebrity Cake eaters. 
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Storm Trooper
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Post Celebrity Cake eaters.
I'm sure this'll descend into a joke thread, but trying to be serious, what are people's views on the shit that's hit the fan regarding lots of celebs and ladies of dubious age.

The news reports are being very savage on it, and it looks rightly so on Saville. He was going out with a 14 year old girl from my dad's school, which my dad told me about years ago, so that one was no surprise.

The issue I'm angling at here is should people like John Peel, who married a 15 year old and who admitted having sex with under age girls (he said he didn't ask for ID), also be stripped of knighthood, and treated with the same revulsion that Saville is receiving?

Jimmy Page also went out with a 14 year old.

Was it just the thing in the 60s and 70s to have sex with whoever and not worry about it as you are famous, or should they all be brought to trial.

Like fuck the Rolling Stones weren't at it too.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:35 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Fair question. People rely on the legal age limit way too much as to what's "right". As long as it's legal, it's fine - kind of attitude. Someone like John Peel who obviously wasn't predatory or harmfully exploitative was totally different to someone like Savile who was.


Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:39 pm
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Super Trooper
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
I was thinking about this the other day - Jerry Lee Lewis is infamous for marrying his THIRTEEN YEAR OLD COUSIN, but that's just treated like a kerazy rock'n'roll story, like Keith Moon driving his car into a swimming pool or something - whereas Gary Glitter is... well, you know. I'm not saying they are exactly the same, but the disparity struck me and I was surprised I'd not noticed it before, or that it doesn't really seem commented on.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:52 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Wasn't Jerry Lee banned from playing the UK because of that? Okay, it's not the same as being thrown into prison for it, but it's a step on from "oh, that wacky Jerry and his child bride".


Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
You're right, but I meant the modern attitude towards him. He's a 'rock'n'roll legend' now and that's treated as just a crazy story - he's not still considered a SICK PEDO FRAEK or anything.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:59 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Quote:
Jimmy Page and Lori Maddox

Also known as: Lori Lightning, Lori Mattix
Born: 1958
Hometown: Los Angeles, California, USA
Romantically linked to: Jimmy Page, David Bowie, Angie Bowie

Lori Maddox was part of the wild Hollywood teenage groupie scene in the early 1970s. She reportedly lost her virginity at age 13 to David Bowie and Angie Bowie. One of her best friends was Sable Starr, who was the unofficial queen of the scene at the time. Lori, who was also known as Lori Lightning and Lori Mattix, wasn't as experienced as Sable, but Lori also became a regular at famous Hollywood groupie hangouts, like the Rainbow Bar & Grill, Rodney's English Disco, the Continental Hyatt House (also known as "The Riot House"), and the Whisky. Like Sable, Lori was often featured in Star magazine (a short-lived '70s magazine, not the Star magazine that's currently a tabloid), which often had articles detailing the activities of music groupies.

When Lori was 14 years old, she met a man who would change her life: Jimmy Page, guitarist of Led Zeppelin. Jimmy first spotted her when an associate of his showed Jimmy a picture of Lori. Jimmy was intrigued, and when Led Zeppelin stopped in Los Angeles on their 1972 tour, Jimmy immediately tried to get together with Lori. Even though Jimmy was dating groupie Pamela Des Barres at the time (back when she was known as Pamela Miller, aka Miss Pamela of the GTO's), Jimmy pursued Lori relentlessly. Lori has said she was still a virgin at the time and she was afraid of Jimmy at first. But Lori has contradicted herself by reportedly saying that she wasn't a virgin when she met Jimmy. Because of her groupie activities before she met Jimmy, it's more likely that she wasn't a virgin by the time she got together with him.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:05 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
The difference there though is "consent" in inverted commas as leggally the under sixteen cannot give consent. It's not the same thing as as forcing yourself on someone, of any age. Pete Townesend looking at child porn seems to have been disregarded becuase he is part of a "classic" band that have some credibility, admittedly, that is different again and his story about being an abuse victim confronting his past may well be true, Chris Langham made the same claims.

I was talking about this with some friends and it's easy to airbrush Savile and Glitter out of media history, classic bands like the Beatles and Stones are going to be a different matter. For the media's reaction and the reaction of fans look at the way Polanski is treated, fairly recently Whoopi Goldberg publicly defended him, saying it wasn't "real" rape. For clarity, the 13 year old voctim was delberately got drunk and was crying and begging him to stop. If someone were to refer to Goldberg as "an evil, stupid nigger" then they could of course legitimately claim that it wasn't "real" racism, presumably then it would all be fine.

Obviously, the majority, if not the entirety of the underage girls (and boys) who popstars previous and present have have had sex with were willing. As Robit said, we need a rethink of the law when am 18 year old who has sex with his or her 15 year old partner can be classed as a sex offender and labelled for life, yet a man in his fifties can have sex with a girl on her sixteenth birthday and there is no legal issue.


Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:21 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Steven Tyler and Julia Holcomb were in somewhat dodgy territory too but with parental consent, so that makes it alright :roll:

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:22 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
JCC wrote:
Saville was an abusive rapist


Like I said, Saville went out with a girl from my dad's school. Totally consenting, he picked her up from school in his car, she went off with him.

Some cases yes, but how many of these victims were actually quite keen at the time to be with a famous man?

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:35 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Ed Blackadder wrote:
I was thinking about this the other day - Jerry Lee Lewis is infamous for marrying his THIRTEEN YEAR OLD COUSIN, but that's just treated like a kerazy rock'n'roll story,


He got a lot of flak (well, in Britain) at the time though. They were married for 13 years after that too. And of course Chuck Berry was arrested for transporting a minor over state lines. Yet nobody said anything about Elvis, despite the fact he started seeing Priscilla when she was 14 and he was in his twenties. It has been said they weren't sleeping together at that point though.

How about Ted Nugent being made legal guardian of his 17 year old girlfriend in 1978 when they couldn't legally marry or co habit because of her age? Or the fact he admits to having sexual partners that would be considered underage (16/17) where he lived and toured? Apparently Courtney Love claims she gave him oral when she was even younger than that, although whether she can be believed or not is another question.

That said, I think there is a world of difference between a predatory older man, whether its assault or statutory rape with a young girl, and a young man falling for a younger girl. There are age limits for a reason of course, but I know a couple who met when she was 14 and he was just going on twenty, if you want to talk legal or moral rights then he was doing something "wrong", yet they have been happily married for almost 40 years.


Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:10 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
The difference is between one-off and predatory behaviour. This is why the likes of Savile and Glitter are vilified but people like Polanski and Peel have people defending them. Gadd and savile clearly have a predilection for girls and, in savile's case, some of it entered outright abuse if the claims are to be believed.

There is a difference between that and someone finding themselves in love with a younger woman, and whether you like it or not, the seventies were a very different era. There have been numerous sociological studies on how child abuse has become the issue it is nowadays, that a celebrity, or even a normal person, is unlikely to get away with fucking a thirteen year old. But back then, child abuse was hidden, paedophilia was an academic term, hell, certain scandinavian countires were legally putting out kiddie porn... Not excusing it, just saying that the values were different


Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:21 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
I know it's completely seperate subject, but it's similar to everyone having at NSBM bands for their views, but Bad Brains get a pass despite the views they have/had on gays.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:52 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Gays > Blacks > Paedos

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:59 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
xBroskix wrote:
I know it's completely seperate subject, but it's similar to everyone having at NSBM bands for their views, but Bad Brains get a pass despite the views they have/had on gays.

So they're shit and homophobic? Pfft.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:31 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Its racist to say anything bad about bad brains though.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:12 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Kizaki Jessica wrote:
The difference is between one-off and predatory behaviour. This is why the likes of Savile and Glitter are vilified but people like Polanski and Peel have people defending them. Gadd and savile clearly have a predilection for girls and, in savile's case, some of it entered outright abuse if the claims are to be believed.

There is a difference between that and someone finding themselves in love with a younger woman, and whether you like it or not, the seventies were a very different era. There have been numerous sociological studies on how child abuse has become the issue it is nowadays, that a celebrity, or even a normal person, is unlikely to get away with fucking a thirteen year old. But back then, child abuse was hidden, paedophilia was an academic term, hell, certain scandinavian countires were legally putting out kiddie porn... Not excusing it, just saying that the values were different


Polanski and Peel have kudos and cool among the literate middle classes, this is the main reason they are defended. There is a massve difference with Peel having "consensual" sex with underage girls, Polanski committing a single act that would still be rape were the victim a grown woman is something different again from Savile et al, though the latter is obviously closer to predatory paedophile behaviour.


Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
The monstering the papers are giving the BBC is par for the course really not to mention grossly hypocritical (as if the same papers weren't brown-nosing Saville for the whole of his rotten career, plus I will lay a confident tenner on equal numbers of pervs working on even the most 'respectable' Fleet Street publications) but in this case they're right. Some sort of omerta thing was clearly afoot, and what's interesting is I don't think it was entirely down to 'protecting their own', or simply because Saville was ultra-litigious (as indeed he was).

Idle conspiracy mongering I know, but my hunch is that Saville got away with it partly because he was linked to several other celebs who did the same sort of thing and to point the finger at him would have been to get a whole house of cards falling down. I actually wonder if this might end up with a sort of Leveson-for-paedo-enablers scenario.


Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:51 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Kizaki Jessica wrote:
The difference is between one-off and predatory behaviour. This is why the likes of Savile and Glitter are vilified but people like Polanski and Peel have people defending them. Gadd and savile clearly have a predilection for girls and, in savile's case, some of it entered outright abuse if the claims are to be believed.

There is a difference between that and someone finding themselves in love with a younger woman, and whether you like it or not, the seventies were a very different era. There have been numerous sociological studies on how child abuse has become the issue it is nowadays, that a celebrity, or even a normal person, is unlikely to get away with fucking a thirteen year old. But back then, child abuse was hidden, paedophilia was an academic term, hell, certain scandinavian countires were legally putting out kiddie porn... Not excusing it, just saying that the values were different


It was an era where the safeguarding of children was non-existent, as KJ/Tomo says it was an entirely different set of values and a completely disturbing culture to our modern more protective of the vulnerable mentality. As abhorent as Glitter and Saville were they could not have gotten away with it without assistance from the culture of the time. Keys given to secure hospitals and mortuary departments for fucks sake - the level of ignorance is astonishing.

A friend of ours (via my parents) remembers Saville as a ruthless landlord type who housed the needy in squalid conditions in bedsits and flats for years. At the end of the day Saville was not just a paedophile but an absolutely horrible person with it - he used his position and standing to access his victims and exploit whole institutions and organisations.


Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:54 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
Yeah from what I heard Savile was an utter cunt in real life.
With Peel I dont know what to think, I mean if a girl is backstage at a gig and giving it away you'd be inclined to think she must be at least legal age, i mean imagine you go out to a club, have some drinks, meet a girl and take her home, a week later you find out she's fifteen.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:02 pm
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Post Re: Celebrity Cake eaters.
yailbloor wrote:
Its racist to say anything bad about bad brains though.

Not racist. Cloth-eared - yes.

Not liking Bad Brains < paedophilia.


Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:59 pm
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