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 Dog vs Cats 

Best pet?
Dogs 57%  57%  [ 12 ]
Cats 43%  43%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 21

 Dog vs Cats 
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
I fucking love dogs, but there are some crazily unrealistic statements being made here. Yes, there are "dangerous" dogs. Yes, people have been attacked by dogs without doing anything that could be reasonably considered provocation. Clearly it's more complex than that, and a lot of reasonable points have been made (mostly by Sol and Dee) about the various factors involved in it, but if you keep dogs then you are keeping animals which are capable of attacking and killing humans - failing to even acknowledge that is fucking grossly irresponsible.

Dogs > Cats, obviously.


Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:41 pm
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Space Ranger
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Painkiller wrote:
I fucking love dogs, but there are some crazily unrealistic statements being made here. Yes, there are "dangerous" dogs. Yes, people have been attacked by dogs without doing anything that could be reasonably considered provocation. Clearly it's more complex than that, and a lot of reasonable points have been made (mostly by Sol and Dee) about the various factors involved in it, but if you keep dogs then you are keeping animals which are capable of attacking and killing humans - failing to even acknowledge that is fucking grossly irresponsible.

Dogs > Cats, obviously.


NO DOGS EVER BITE ANYONE UNLESS THEY ARE PROVOKED BY EVIL HUMANS.

You are breaking rank with your people here.


Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:09 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Termoid hasn't spoken yet - he is one third of my people.


Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:16 pm
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Storm Trooper
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Clint Ruin wrote:
Shallowthing wrote:

Clint Ruin wrote:
I was bitten as a child by dogs on three occasions and I was doing nothing...

... that you were aware of. Those dogs clearly disagreed, and I find the fact that it happened more than once suggestive.


Because you know me as I am and as I was so well, clearly. Enough to snidily insinuate that I'm lying, as well.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Clint Ruin wrote:
Don't think I'm going to overlook this.

Really? Disappointing.

debris wrote:
Killing dogs based on their breed is the perfect example of everything that is fucked up with humankind. Child abuse is repulsive beyond measure, but at least most people hate it. Killing dogs based on their breed, however, is sanctioned by the government. Evil beyond words. Just utterly sickening. Fucking abhorrent...

If you lived in a world that is not designed for you, if you had to comply with rules you don't understand and that are always against you. If you lived in a house in which the other inhabitants do not have the slightest clue of why you are the way you are and simply do not care but somehow expect you to behave in a way that is not natural for you...wouldn't you explode and revolt?
I think that the fact that there are not far, far more deaths by dog attacks speaks volumes about how amazing dogs are.

I've always thought that just like you need to go through driving lessons and get a license to drive, people should go through the same to have a pet.

Debris gets it.

debris wrote:
There are no dangerous dogs...anywhere, never. Just stupid, uninformed people.
I have never understood what people are thinking when they say that dogs are dangerous.

Dogs are dangerous in the same way that horses are dangerous: In certain circumstances, they can kill a person. Generally it is because a person has done (probably unwittingly) something to aggravate the animal or otherwise trigger the "attack", or just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. So many people are so ignorant about animals that it's scary. People who keep goldfish in bowls. People who give cats milk. People who keep large working dogs in tiny inner-city flats. That cyclist in the YouTube video who ignores the equine equivalent of someone screaming "FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF!" and gets bitten for his trouble. Just because a person doesn't understand what they did to cause the behaviour doesn't mean the aggression was "unprovoked" in the eyes of the animal.

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Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:45 pm
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Star Trooper
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
What am I talking about? I'm talking about you not-so-subtly making out that I am a liar and/or someone who has abused or antagonised animals. Don't be so fucking disingenous.

I can't wait to see you try and twist this into you somehow being the injured party.


Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:47 pm
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Storm Trooper
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
I'm sorry Clint, there's no nice way to put this: You're just being silly now.

I have at no stage accused or even suspected you of lying. I am sorry that circumstances in your past have led to you holding such a low opinion of dogs - it's your loss. All that I found "suggestive" was the fact that you've been subjected to "unprovoked" (in your eyes) attacks by dogs on three separate occasions, whereas the vast majority of people sail blithely through life without accruing a single bite. You're talking about three different dogs, right?

There are no "injured parties" here unless you're really that determined to be one.

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Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:53 pm
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Yes, three different dogs.

My original point way back when was that, when comparing the 'worst' behaviour cats and dogs are capable of, the charge sheet for dogs is far, far worse - there's really no getting around this, I'm afraid. Whatiffing about cats being bigger is irrelevant, they're not bigger and never will be.

I'm sick to death of the endless excuses that are made. Some of the shit that's being said here is frighteningly close to the stuff NRA gun nuts come out with: "Guns don't kill people..." If anything, their argument is slightly stronger as they are at least correct that a gun cannot fire itself. Whereas there have been several examples made by Dee and Morf as well as myself of dogs going ballistic of their own volition. Maybe I did antagonise the damn things merely by being present, but any non-wild animal that behaves like that can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. People in general and children in particular have a right to walk around unmolested by someone else's "best friend". And this overrules animal rights, from top to bottom.

None of this means I'm in favour of killing dogs just because of their breed or anything like that. My dad, as I intimated, has quite an extreme dislike of pretty much all animals but I think this may be to do with his germ phobia as much as anything else.


Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:18 pm
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Storm Trooper
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Clint Ruin wrote:
Yes, three different dogs.

This is very sad. Still, the odds against this are high, and as you describe it you are the common uniting factor in all cases. Can you at least see why I find this "suggestive"?

Clint Ruin wrote:
My original point way back when was that, when comparing the 'worst' behaviour cats and dogs are capable of, the charge sheet for dogs is far, far worse - there's really no getting around this, I'm afraid. Whatiffing about cats being bigger is irrelevant, they're not bigger and never will be.

I suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree on whether it is relevant or not. I maintain that it is. If dogs were as small and feeble as cats they would be as little of a threat, and if cats were the size of a fifteen-stone rottweiler... well, there are cats that big in the world, and humans don't tend to keep them as pets. You can't compare cat-sized cats with dog-sized dogs - you're not comparing like with like.

Clint Ruin wrote:
I'm sick to death of the excuses that are made. Some of the shit that's being said here is frighteningly close to the stuff NRA gun nuts come out with: "Guns don't kill people..." If anything, their argument is slightly stronger as they are at least correct that a gun cannot fire itself.

Guns don't kill people. They are, however, a tool designed by humans with that express purpose in mind. Hammers hammer in nails. Screwdrivers screw in screws. Guns make alive people into dead people. Since humans as a rule cannot be trusted with such tools, as a rule they should not be allowed to have them. Dogs, though? Dogs can't be compared with the deliberate, single, murderous purpose of firearms. You're (deliberately?) not comparing like with like again.

Clint Ruin wrote:
Whereas there have been several examples made by Dee and Morf as well as myself of dogs going ballistic of their own volition. Maybe I did antagonise the damn things merely by being present, but any non-wild animal that behaves like that can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

So you're blaming domesticated animals for being insufficiently domesticated. I think you need to be looking at who domesticated them in the first place. Humans have been interfering (no, not like that, you predictable fucks) with animals for tens of thousands of years. Humans have made dogs, cats, horses and whathaveyou into what they are now, and to my mind that makes us responsible for them - both as species and as individual animals.

You can't expect a dog/cat/horse to understand or think like a human, so it's up to the humans to understand and try to think like the animals.

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Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:36 pm
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Shar Pei. The Chinese dog with a face like noodles is a Shar Pei.

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Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:18 pm
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Dogs aren't imaginary, though.

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Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:51 pm
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Carlos Danger wrote:
muzzles in public for owners

I agree with this bit, at least.

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Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:24 pm
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Opinionated Loudmouth. Perkele!
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
I can't help being touched by this topic since working in animal rescue is what takes most of my time. I work with Pit Bulls, and in three different opportunities, I have fostered and helped rehabilitate Staffies who were pulled from dog fighting rinks. They stayed with me for periods no shorter than 6 months and I never had one single situation in which they genuinely represent a threat to me or my family. Since I know where they are coming from, and I know what triggers their aggression I have to work hard to identify and understand the signals that the dog gives when it's feeling uncomfortable. In this process I have learned to discern between the different types of growls and bites. There is a huge difference between a warning bite and one that truly aims to harm. I've had several of the former, but none of the later.
At the same time, I have been in many situations in which a dog growls/bites a person only as a warning and the "victim" makes a huge scandal and has the dog put to sleep. Fucking assholes.

I have a huge scar on my shoulder that I got from a Rottie mix when I was 19. At the time I was sure I had done nothing for the dog to "attack" me, but with time I understood what I and the owner had done wrong. First, the fucking owner had taught the dog not to growl, i.e. not to give any signals if he was feeling uncomfortable or threatened. The dog had learned that if he growled or barked, he would get beaten, so he stopped doing it altogether. He would then go straight to the bite. Then, since I didn't have much experience with dogs, got too close to him and got bitten. However, it was just a warning bite, otherwise I would be dead or mutilated. Btw, I love Rottweilers almost as much as Pit Bulls.

That's my experience, take from it what you wish. Maybe your experience with dogs is different. So be it. I stand by what I said in my earlier post.

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Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:37 am
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Space Ranger
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Shallowthing wrote:

If dogs were as small and feeble as cats they would be as little of a threat

comma after "as cats"
Shallowthing wrote:

Since humans as a rule cannot be trusted with such tools, as a rule they should not be allowed to have them.

use of "as a rule" twice makes for a clumsy sentence.

rewrite both, please.

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Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:43 am
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Reverend Jim wrote:
Shallowthing wrote:

If dogs were as small and feeble as cats they would be as little of a threat

comma after "as cats"

Not necessary. Read it aloud both ways and feel the difference. The more direct rhythm is a deliberate stylistic choice on my part.

Reverend Jim wrote:
Shallowthing wrote:

Since humans as a rule cannot be trusted with such tools, as a rule they should not be allowed to have them.

use of "as a rule" twice makes for a clumsy sentence.

Deliberate and considered use of repetition for stylistic effect. As deliberate and considered as you trolling me on non-existent spelling and grammar infractions. And yes, I've bitten, but in the hopes that people might learn something.

Carlos Danger wrote:
I think I'll steal a Rhodesian Ridgeback, mistreat it, set it on a horse and then allow it to be shot.

Depending on the horse, the shooting bit might not be necessary.

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Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:00 am
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
I once got bit by a Police dog ,they are nasty fuckers .


Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:02 am
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
Cats are best.

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Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:03 am
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Post Re: Dog vs Cats
andrew wrote:
I once got bit by a Police dog ,they are nasty fuckers .

One of my uncles used to have two police dogs - one that flunked training, and one that had seen active service and subsequently retired. They were both lovely, affectionate, intelligent dogs, and I spent many hours playing with both of them.

The older one once crashed head-first through a window an chased a would-be burglar down the street, but that was the cunt's own fault for trying to break into a house that had two police dogs in it.

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Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:36 am
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