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 Rise of the Machines.. 
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Super Trooper
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Post Rise of the Machines..
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... oshe-vardi


It's rather shortsighted to replace humans with machines, and the economic impact could be catastrophic. Say 50% of the developed world is out of work, where is the money coming from to pay for the stuff the machines are making? If I don't have a job, it doesn't matter how efficiently the machines are making the stuff I want to buy, I can't buy it anyway.

The idea that we'll all work a few hours a week for lots of money is a fucking joke as well. Who believes this shit?

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:16 pm
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Storm Trooper
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
I haven't read the article, but automation is a huge issue right now leading to all kinds of wild speculation. Apparently there are claims that truck drivers and taxi drivers will be pretty much out of work in the next 8-10 years, and some reports suggest it may very well be sooner.

If it puts too many out of work, there will be a huge consumption crisis as you already stated. The government would be forced to 'fill the gaps', so to speak, unless we move into a post-consumerist world somehow, which seems unlikely. But if that happened, there would be no need for the government to pay citiziens anything above a basic sustenance wage.

I'm going to stop now before I start sounding like Alex Jones, but this is definitely something to be concerned about.

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:25 pm
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Super Trooper
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Stat_Rad wrote:
I haven't read the article, but automation is a huge issue right now leading to all kinds of wild speculation. Apparently there are claims that truck drivers and taxi drivers will be pretty much out of work in the next 8-10 years, and some reports suggest it may very well be sooner.

If it puts too many out of work, there will be a huge consumption crisis.


You can imagine a time when people start attacking the 'machines'. It's all very sci-fi, but you can see it coming. The answer is for people to boycott companies who automate everything. If I went into a Subway and a robot was serving I'd just go somewhere else. On a positive note I noticed the other day one supermarket had removed it's self serve tills because people weren't using them. Good!
We'll have ourselves to blame if we go along with all this shit. Self driving cars can fuck off as well. Can't wait for the first pedestrian to get knocked over and Google gets it's ass sued. I still can't believe that's going to happen anyway. You only have to look at my job, trucks pull up outside and a man gets out and brings a parcel in. 10 times a day if not more. What are they suggesting it pulls up outside and it calls me out to pick my parcel out of the van? Or is a drone going to fly out of the van and knock on the door?
It's a nonsense, that people who work in places like Google envision the real world to be all set up for these things to work but it's not like that is it. People have work places in all sorts of shitty places, like railway arches and down grotty inaccessible back streets. It's a fantasy that could work if we were starting from scratch but not as the world is now.
Drones need shutting down as well. There is no need for drones flying around delivering fucking Pizza. For a start kids will shoot them down to get the pizza/amazon box... it's common sense, something which is sadly lacking with all these great tech innovations! Again, this idea of thousands of Amazon drones flying around the place delivering parcels... the first one that falls on someone's head will be a litigation-fest.

If all this makes me a luddite then fine. In thrity years I'll be retired or dead anyway.

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:39 pm
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Space Ranger
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Stat_Rad wrote:
I haven't read the article, but automation is a huge issue right now leading to all kinds of wild speculation. Apparently there are claims that truck drivers and taxi drivers will be pretty much out of work in the next 8-10 years, and some reports suggest it may very well be sooner.

If it puts too many out of work, there will be a huge consumption crisis as you already stated. The government would be forced to 'fill the gaps', so to speak, unless we move into a post-consumerist world somehow, which seems unlikely. But if that happened, there would be no need for the government to pay citiziens anything above a basic sustenance wage.

I'm going to stop now before I start sounding like Alex Jones, but this is definitely something to be concerned about.


Totally agree but i do believe we will move to a post-consumerist world in our lifetime. But there are many thoughts of what that looks like and what new avenues of work/consumption open up. Ultimately there are always commodities to be brought and sold so we can expect new economies to open up, or at least expansion of existing grey and black markets


Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:37 pm
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Space Ranger
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Mali wrote:
You can imagine a time when people start attacking the 'machines'. It's all very sci-fi, but you can see it coming. The answer is for people to boycott companies who automate everything. If I went into a Subway and a robot was serving I'd just go somewhere else. On a positive note I noticed the other day one supermarket had removed it's self serve tills because people weren't using them.


There are already restaurants with robot waiters. I think it is a japanese chain, enough said! What is a novelty now will become more common...

I was in the UK recently and one thing i noticed is how few shop staff there were when stores had self service tills. WHSmith is the obvious example.


Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:41 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Stat_Rad wrote:
I haven't read the article, but automation is a huge issue right now leading to all kinds of wild speculation. Apparently there are claims that truck drivers and taxi drivers will be pretty much out of work in the next 8-10 years, and some reports suggest it may very well be sooner.

If it puts too many out of work, there will be a huge consumption crisis as you already stated. The government would be forced to 'fill the gaps', so to speak, unless we move into a post-consumerist world somehow, which seems unlikely. But if that happened, there would be no need for the government to pay citiziens anything above a basic sustenance wage.

I'm going to stop now before I start sounding like Alex Jones, but this is definitely something to be concerned about.


Amusingly, the people who are pushing this forward are presumably the ones who stand to lose the most if this all pans out the way we are suggesting. Mind you I can't help thinking that something will change dramatically in the next decade or two. So much technology is becoming available to the 'wrong' people... a co-ordinated drone 'attack' could easily bring an airport to a standstill if desired. I don't mean armed drones, just a bunch of them flying near an airport and towards plane's taking off. How hard would it be to fly a little drone into a jet's engine? Not very. Technology will be our undoing, and unfortunately the 'kids' who are obsessed with their phones and gadgets will take some persuading.

Still, when they're all on the dole because robots took their jobs, will they still love Apple then?

Also, it's all very well making an Apple car, but who the fuck wants to drive around in that dorky looking thing. Cars are intrinsic part of our society, young guys especially want to drive cars, not be passengers, and they certainly don't want to cruise around in an oversized 'mouse'. Or maybe they do, as long as they can watch fucking Netflix?

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:13 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
This article reminds of that VIZ page showing how the humans of the future were going to devolve because of TV watching and stuff like that. That was a joke though. But presumably it's the zero-sum game mentality in it which the Guardian loves. "Oh no, if a robot does work, then someone somewhere is losing out!"


Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:30 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
I don't think the fact that it's in The Guardian is the issue really...

I think maybe what the 'companies' really want is for us not to be able to actually own anything. Have you noticed how it was always 'own it on DVD' and now it's all stream everything and then when you stop paying you've got fuck all...

I sound like a right lefty twat hahahahahaha.

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/opini ... .html?_r=1

Interesting. The point about pilots crashing the plane because they were suddenly given control of a plane because the autopilot malfunctioned is a good one... skills atrophy without practice.

My thing with self driving cars as well is, I can't imagine how that's going to work in situations where you are at a roundabout that's gridlocked and you literally have to force your way out. How will that work if a car is default programmed not to drive into another car's path? Okay you can make it park itself and do all sorts of clever things, but how does it cope with, say a pissed up twat deliberately standing in front of your car because he knows it can't run him over? Or actually the same thing in cities, once people realise that driverless cars can't hit them they will just walk in front of them all the time.
Or what about a woman alone in a car park, she gets to her car and tries to reverse out but there's a guy there standing in front of her car. It won't move because there's someone there, and his mate gets in the car and attacks her. How is this technology helping her exactly?
Not to mention that all of this bollocks presumably relies on the bloody internet. Which is fine except they need to make that a bloody site more reliable than it is now. Can you imagine the gridlock that would ensue from a large web failure?
Perhaps they could start by limiting the number of unnecessary connections, nobody needs a fridge which connects to the web. I'm sorry it's just bollocks. We don't need apps for milk either. FUCK OFF.

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:57 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
How does a driverless car know to get out of the way of an ambulance?

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Stat_Rad wrote:
Apparently there are claims that truck drivers and taxi drivers will be pretty much out of work in the next 8-10 years, and some reports suggest it may very well be sooner.


I'd love to see a robot trying to load cattle or sheep on a truck. :roll:

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:15 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Mali wrote:
How does a driverless car know to get out of the way of an ambulance?


That one wouldn't be hard to fix- just a radio signal from the ambulance.

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:16 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Mali wrote:

You can imagine a time when people start attacking the 'machines'.



Mali wrote:

If all this makes me a luddite then fine.


That's the very definition of a Luddite. :mrgreen:

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:20 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
If it goes ahead then there's going to be a huge rise in demand for mechanics, designers programmers and engineers to fix, maintain and improve all this stuff that they're rolling out. Not to mention the vast army of cyber security personnel they'll need if they follow through with the utterly foolish decision to connect self-driving cars to the internet.

So I can't see it decreasing total employment at all. Like all tech improvements there's a lot of short-term pain followed up by lots of long term increases in newer and highly skilled types of labour and jobs involving people skills - stuff you can't outsource to robots.

And that's if it actuaaly works. It might go the way of fusion power - forever thirty years away.


And I can't us moving to a post-scarcity world with this stuff at all.


Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:46 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Stuffstuff wrote:
If it goes ahead then there's going to be a huge rise in demand for mechanics, designers programmers and engineers to fix, maintain and improve all this stuff that they're rolling out. Not to mention the vast army of cyber security personnel they'll need if they follow through with the utterly foolish decision to connect self-driving cars to the internet.

So I can't see it decreasing total employment at all. Like all tech improvements there's a lot of short-term pain followed up by lots of long term increases in newer and highly skilled types of labour and jobs involving people skills - stuff you can't outsource to robots.

And that's if it actuaaly works. It might go the way of fusion power - forever thirty years away.


And I can't us moving to a post-scarcity world with this stuff at all.


Aren't you forgetting that they could build robots to fix the robots?

Connecting EVERYTHING to the internet is a terrorists wet dream isn't it?

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Last edited by Mali on Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:24 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Stuffstuff wrote:
If it goes ahead then there's going to be a huge rise in demand for mechanics, designers programmers and engineers to fix, maintain and improve all this stuff that they're rolling out. Not to mention the vast army of cyber security personnel they'll need if they follow through with the utterly foolish decision to connect self-driving cars to the internet.

So I can't see it decreasing total employment at all. Like all tech improvements there's a lot of short-term pain followed up by lots of long term increases in newer and highly skilled types of labour and jobs involving people skills - stuff you can't outsource to robots.


Experts made the same claims about the car industry and they didn't pan out.

Those kind of jobs will benefit a small percentage of the workforce.

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Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:26 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
Mali wrote:

Aren't you forgetting that they could build robots to fix the robots?


And someone needs to design and maintain those robots too. Not to mention write the source codes, fix bugs, fight viruses, etc...

You'll never remove humans from it entirely. In fact, the more tech you use, the more people you need in it's development.

Stat_Rad wrote:

Experts made the same claims about the car industry and they didn't pan out.

Those kind of jobs will benefit a small percentage of the workforce.


All of these predictions rely on the tech being ultra reliable and unhackable, though. You connect a smartcar to the internet and someone will figure a way to hack it. To keep a system of automation you'll need a lot of oversight to counter the inevitable monkey business that goes on.

The bigger challenge would be overhauling the education system to deal with this.


Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:31 am
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
I think the problem with all this technology is that they don't seem to think about the 'human' factor. Hacking like you say will become a massive problem. Wasn't there something on TV fairly recently about how they can already hack into a car's computer and take control of it...

Don't these people watch zombie movies? How are we going to escape when the 'system' shuts down and all the cars won't go anywhere because the internet is fucked?

And then you have to stop and think, hang on a minute... there's people in other countries who haven't got a supply of clean water and we need an app to tell us when we run out of milk?

It's retarded.

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Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:38 am
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
I'll start practising with the seashells now.


Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the Machines..
I personally think that it's inevitable the future will feature more automation and there simply won't be enough jobs to go round in the conventional sense. It will be like pouring a gallon into a pint pot. Our whole concept of work and consequently society's/the world's structure will have to be re-thought.

I'd speculate and muse a bit more on this, but I haven't got the energy to do so.


Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:01 pm
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