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 The next president of USA is.... 

?
Hillary 56%  56%  [ 14 ]
Cruz 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Trump 32%  32%  [ 8 ]
Bernie 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
someone else 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 25

 The next president of USA is.... 
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Star Trooper
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
I clearly voted NOTRUMP, but this whole notion of NOW protesting him being done by his detractors is just a waste of energy.

Better to brace ourselves for WHATEVER might happen next and really, it could be absolutely anything. Also, start strategizing for 4 years from now.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:06 pm
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Star Trooper
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
The most telling stats that need to be looked at here are sheer numbers.

-100 million ELIGIBLE voters didn't bother to show up.

-Trump got 2 million LESS votes than Romney got in 2012

-Clinton got 6.5 million LESS votes than Obama got in 2012, but she still won the popular vote.


So much to be garnered from that.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:57 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
And in terms of percentages - apparently women voted for Trump only marginally less than they did for Romney. But there are still plenty of articles popping up now saying how it was all misogyny and "white males" behind her failure. :roll: They just will not let of of this identity politics bone. Trump 2020 (if he lives that long) there they go!

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:01 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Of the people who voted, this is all true. So that makes the main issue those who were too fucking lazy to get over on "Oh, they are BOTH terrible...I'm just not going to vote this year". Obama carried the female vote by 11 points in 2012 even though Romney got a higher percentage of white female than Trump did. That's because black women and Hispanic women showed up big.

I maintain that the misogyny bit holds up because this nation is still so overcome with it that even WOMEN would vote for this beast. They just overlook it and I think that is the saddest bit of all. No way in hell should he have that much female support. You can't really compare this President-elect to, well ANY candidate in history on that point. It should have obliterated party lines and it didn't. We don't need any more evidence than that.

Again, numbers tell the tale here.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:39 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
How is what your saying evidence? As far as I understand it the numbers indicate either indifference or a fairly typical level of support. Surely we can only assume that if a woman voted for Trump she supports him or if she doesn't vote at all, she doesn't particularly care.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:46 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Duckstyle wrote:
Also, she has spent 30 years in servitude of others.



Please tell me how the policies she helped author and push for helped the people of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, the former Yugoslavia. Please tell me how record deportations of Latinos and endemic imprisonment and police violence of African Americans helped anybody.


Please tell me how her well-paid speeches for Wall Street fatcats helped all those poor people in the boondocks of her country who voted Trump in spades.

I'm dying to hear this. I could do with another chuckle.

Seriously, why do people insist on whitewashing the record of this horrible person? It's like a mental illness exclusive to the liberal left.


Duckstyle wrote:
I maintain that the misogyny bit holds up because this nation is still so overcome with it that even WOMEN would vote for this beast. They just overlook it and I think that is the saddest bit of all. No way in hell should he have that much female support. You can't really compare this President-elect to, well ANY candidate in history on that point. It should have obliterated party lines and it didn't. We don't need any more evidence than that.


This alone tells you everything about why he won.


Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:49 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Stuffstuff wrote:
Seriously, why do people insist on whitewashing the record of this horrible person? It's like a mental illness exclusive to the liberal left.

They did it (understandably) to try to stop Trump. They're continuing to do it to try to spin the idea that she lost because of HAAAAAAAATE and MISOOOOOOGYNY.

At best she is an establishment technocrat who offered more of the same....except with genitals on the inside. At worst an entitled, corrupt and bloodless criminal........except with genitals on the inside.

Watching her crumble and her fans weep is incredibly, incredibly sweet. But it will only last a short week or two. Then they will still have Trump. :(

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:59 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Robi: I suppose my theory only stands if one believes that the Donald is actually a person who views women as beneath men and feels he and others like him can treat them as they please. If one is on that train, it's very difficult to rationalize any women voting for him, let alone a majority. There are obviously more components to his getting elected but speaking strictly on how a woman could see past how he views the opposite sex and vote for him anyway is confounding to me. But I'm not a woman, so I guess I just don't get it.

Stuff: Very selective options you've laid out there. In addition to what you point out, her Wall Street speeches didn't reduce global warming....her being a Senator in New York didn't fend off Trayvon Martin's murder...and her commencement speech at Wellesley fell way short of helping impoverished communities...


She's done plenty. A cursory Google search will bear that out.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:11 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
robitusson wrote:
Stuffstuff wrote:
Seriously, why do people insist on whitewashing the record of this horrible person? It's like a mental illness exclusive to the liberal left.

They did it (understandably) to try to stop Trump. They're continuing to do it to try to spin the idea that she lost because of HAAAAAAAATE and MISOOOOOOGYNY.

At best she is an establishment technocrat who offered more of the same....except with genitals on the inside. At worst an entitled, corrupt and bloodless criminal........except with genitals on the inside.

Watching her crumble and her fans weep is incredibly, incredibly sweet. But it will only last a short week or two. Then they will still have Trump. :(


...and basking in the glow of this is pretty low. I don't know how many times or ways I can say this, but most of us aren't as upset by Hilary not being in the White House as we are having Trump there. His winning is much more the problem than her losing.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:13 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
A horrible egotistical sexist born into a life of privilege with a long history of treating women like talking sperm receptacles. Who suddenly finds himself thrust into the highest office in the land by a large number of male and female voters.

Now who does that sound like?

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Duckstyle wrote:
Stuff: Very selective options you've laid out there. In addition to what you point out, her Wall Street speeches didn't reduce global warming....her being a Senator in New York didn't fend off Trayvon Martin's murder...and her commencement speech at Wellesley fell way short of helping impoverished communities...


Selective? There also true. There hasn't been a single US military intervention in the last 30 years that she didn't support, only plumped for gay marriage when it was found out to be popular with her base, and happily approved a crime bill that her husband wrote up that sent thousands more blacks into the pokey.

She even boasted about attacking Iran if she were to be elected president back on the campaign trail in 2008 and cackled over the devastation that the NATO intervention in Libya in 2011. The fact that veteran neocons lined up to support her over Trump speaks volumes.


Everything the American Left hated about Bush Junior is made flesh in Clinton. Take off the rose tinted glasses and see sense.

Duckstyle wrote:

She's done plenty. A cursory Google search will bear that out.


I did as you requested and dug this out:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... sia-us-war

Not even in office and already proposing plans for a military standoff with the biggest nuclear power on the planet.

If that is what it means to be left in 2016, all I know is that I am not left. At all.


Last edited by Stuffstuff on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:32 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Duckstyle wrote:
Robi: I suppose my theory only stands if one believes that the Donald is actually a person who views women as beneath men and feels he and others like him can treat them as they please. If one is on that train, it's very difficult to rationalize any women voting for him, let alone a majority. There are obviously more components to his getting elected but speaking strictly on how a woman could see past how he views the opposite sex and vote for him anyway is confounding to me. But I'm not a woman, so I guess I just don't get it.

Fair enough.

Duckstyle wrote:

...and basking in the glow of this is pretty low. I don't know how many times or ways I can say this, but most of us aren't as upset by Hilary not being in the White House as we are having Trump there. His winning is much more the problem than her losing.

The only low thing is how disgustingly entitled Hillary was about her candidacy and how contemptuous she and her supporters were towards Trump's. This attitude is at the heart of why this fucking orange-faced idiot is going to be in the White House now. Their reaction to losing has been utterly childish and watching them now get their deserts is the only silver lining to this whole mess.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:39 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Stuffstuff wrote:




Duckstyle wrote:
Stuff: Very selective options you've laid out there. In addition to what you point out, her Wall Street speeches didn't reduce global warming....her being a Senator in New York didn't fend off Trayvon Martin's murder...and her commencement speech at Wellesley fell way short of helping impoverished communities...


Selective? There also true. There hasn't been a single US military intervention in the last 30 years that she didn't support, only plumped for gay marriage when it was found out to be popular with her base, and happily approved a crime bill that her husband wrote up that sent thousands more blacks into the pokey.

She even boasted about attacking Iran if she were to be elected president back on the campaign trail in 2008 and cackled over the devastation that the NATO intervention in Libya in 2011. The fact that veteran neocons lined up to support her over Trump speaks volumes.


Everything the American Left hated about Bush Junior is made flesh in Clinton. Take off the rose tinted glasses and see sense.

Duckstyle wrote:

She's done plenty. A cursory Google search will bear that out.


I did as you requested and dug this out:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... sia-us-war

Not even in office and already proposing plans for a military standoff with the biggest nuclear power on the planet.

If that is what it means to be left in 2016, all I know is that I am not left. At all.



So, you dug up a story about something hasn't happened?

I was referring to her ACTUAL accomplishments in re: my statement that she has done plenty for others.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:44 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
robitusson wrote:
Duckstyle wrote:
Robi: I suppose my theory only stands if one believes that the Donald is actually a person who views women as beneath men and feels he and others like him can treat them as they please. If one is on that train, it's very difficult to rationalize any women voting for him, let alone a majority. There are obviously more components to his getting elected but speaking strictly on how a woman could see past how he views the opposite sex and vote for him anyway is confounding to me. But I'm not a woman, so I guess I just don't get it.

Fair enough.

Duckstyle wrote:

...and basking in the glow of this is pretty low. I don't know how many times or ways I can say this, but most of us aren't as upset by Hilary not being in the White House as we are having Trump there. His winning is much more the problem than her losing.

The only low thing is how disgustingly entitled Hillary was about her candidacy and how contemptuous she and her supporters were towards Trump's. This attitude is at the heart of why this fucking orange-faced idiot is going to be in the White House now. Their reaction to losing has been utterly childish and watching them now get their deserts is the only silver lining to this whole mess.


In relation to Trump, she had every right to be entitled to her candidacy and being contemptuous about Trump's? Putting it plainly, there was no other way to view it. Not with any sort of rational thought process. The false equivalency made by pointing out his validity vs. hers is what got so many on his side, kept so many other from voting and has become a huge distraction from the facts for everyone else.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:48 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Duckstyle wrote:



I was referring to her ACTUAL accomplishments in re: my statement that she has done plenty for others.



Voting for the Afghanistan war, the Iraq war, the fucking Patriot act, being a key turning point in starting military intervention in Libya, happily voting in banker bailouts, plotting with the CIA to arm god only knows who on the rebel side in the Syrian civil war and coining it in on the private speaker circuit. The same one that the well known pillar of moral clarity and decency Tony Blair pimped himself out on.

And let's not even get into the endless list of investigations and controversies that she seems to dodge. You'll point out that she was never found guilty of anything. I'll simply say that there ain't no smoke without fire.

Plenty of accomplishments to be proud of, I'm sure.

She's the biggest war hawk neocon corporate suckup imaginable and to think the Democratic leadership sabotaged Bernie's bid to plonk her on the ballot like a fucking Royal succession?

It's the DNC leadership that deserve your wrath, not Trump voters. They have betrayed you and paved the way for this. Aim your fire at them.

They laid down the red carpet for Trump to the White House.


Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:11 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
robitusson wrote:
And in terms of percentages - apparently women voted for Trump only marginally less than they did for Romney. But there are still plenty of articles popping up now saying how it was all misogyny and "white males" behind her failure. :roll: They just will not let of of this identity politics bone. Trump 2020 (if he lives that long) there they go!


The liberals have already come up with an explanation: it was working class white women without college degrees that voted for Trump.

Those pesky working class women who vote against their interests ruined everything. Don't you know that would be intellectuals always know best? After all, so many of them supported such great ideas like communism in the 20th century.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:33 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Jonathan Pie nails the real reason Trump won the election.

Duckstyle urgently needs to watch this:



Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:50 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
I don't understand why it is that you seem to be missing the point of my real problem here...

See, I get WHY he won. Much of what you are all saying is true. The facts pretty much bear that out, but why THOSE facts matter more than the facts that absolutely should have kept him out of office are what confound and infuriate me.

The false equivalency for example. If I say "He has a very cavalier attitude about sexual assault" the response can be anything from "BENGHAZI!" to "EMAILS!". If I say he has bankrupted his companies and proven to be a terrible businessman, I hear" Yeah, but she voted FOR war so many times". These things don't have anything to do with one an other. They are distractions to shift the focus away from a man unfit and so very clearly not up to snuff for the job.

This should not have been our choice, right, I get that, but it was. We can look back on why that is and see how it's come to be and that's what needs to be looked at moving forward.

Climate change denier, thin skinned, twitter baiting, litigious, unapologetic, MASSIVELY LYING like way more than Clinton ever did and yes racist and misogynistic are just the start of what kind of man he has been and that alone should be enough for people to say "You know, we need a change, but this loose canon isn't the guy".

But it wasn't and AGAIN I keep saying this, but none of you seem to hear it...

This was NOT about Liberals vs Conservatives. This became what we should do vs what we absolutely should not. So please stop saying that "Liberals are upset at this and Liberals are blaming that". High ranking and powerful people in Trump's own party distanced themselves from him. Fear is what won out, any way you slice it, that's what it comes down to and that is just not ok.

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Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:14 am
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Stuffstuff wrote:
Jonathan Pie nails the real reason Trump won the election.

Duckstyle urgently needs to watch this:


This is all over social media. Who is this person?

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Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:01 am
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
Duckstyle wrote:


They are distractions to shift the focus away from a man unfit and so very clearly not up to snuff for the job.




This is a democracy. The only qualification for President as far as I understand it,(beyond being over 35 and being born there) is to win a Presidential election. Easy.

And if we're talking about moral equivalency, I agree. They aren't morally equivalent. Happily voting in favour of more military carnage to be reaped on the third world is miles worse than a few shady business deals and being a cunt (not that the Clintons don't have their share)

He's not the first racist to win office (hell, the country was founded by white supremacist slave owners) and he won't be the last. Deal.

And who was it denouncing him as persona non grata? The same media establishment they hated in the first place. They threw their credibility away long ago. Why listen to them?

Given a choice between the living embodiment of the establishment and a complete fist in the face of it and is it really any wonder they voted him in? Especially in the age in the swing of populist politics.

Even his own voters think he's a total dickhead. That's what they voted him in for. He's just a spiked bat to swing in the face of a global elite that they believed screwed them over and gave them nothing in return yet arrogantly expect their unquestioning loyalty. A lot of people got screwed over in the mid-west. A lot of them voted for Obama. Twice.

I think it's you who doesn't grasp it. At all.

Any moral continuum that features Grandma Death on the side of the angels is already rotted beyond repair.


Last edited by Stuffstuff on Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:57 pm
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Post Re: The next president of USA is....
robitusson wrote:
Stuffstuff wrote:
Jonathan Pie nails the real reason Trump won the election.

Duckstyle urgently needs to watch this:


This is all over social media. Who is this person?



This article fleshes him out more:

http://www.thedebrief.co.uk/news/politi ... 0160764102


Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:59 pm
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