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 When is a band in their prime??? 
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Opinionated Loudmouth. Perkele!
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Stat_Rad wrote:
Appetite wasnt an overnight success Wretch. The GNR freight train built streadily over time. When UYI dropped there was a level of anticipation that was unprecedented for them.


It wasn't an overnight success, but it went stratospheric after Sweet Child and Paradise City.

And that is what created that level of anticipation in the first place, it wasn't just a band following a hit record, it was a band who were already a cultural phenomenon, following a record that was a start-to-finish classic album, which is how it was viewed, if not by critics, then by the majority of fans at the time.

I knew it was something beyond just another album at the time, and I was only 9 when it came out. It was clear even then, just before Sweet Child came out and they were the biggest band on the planet, that it was a cut above most of the contemporary records, and even earlier classics I was enjoying at the time.

And it was clear that they had a unique and exciting persona and vibe that was way beyond the norm too.

And any disappointment felt at the time or retrospectively, even if fans generally were receptive and it sold in huge number, was because the albums didn't live up to the level set by Appetite.

That is my main issue with UYI and the whole era, or at least, with anyone claiming it as their prime. Not that the albums were bad, they were largely excellent, but that they simply couldn't touch the songs or the chemistry that preceded them.

They didn't even have anything to compare to say, the live quality of Metallica post Black album, much less their own earlier energy to make it stand as their peak.

Were they still an exciting proposition and huge phenomenon in the early 90's? Of course they fucking were.

Their material and impact from that time is still infinitely more important, musically relevant in and of itself (and I would easily include Nirvana in that, even in objective terms) and personally at least, fondly remembered than any band since or for many years before.

Were they in their absolute prime, taking into account everything that entails, from the quality of their songs, their cultural impact, their sense of danger, and whole persona etc?

No. Absolutely not. That was, is, and forever will be in 87/88, and the albums of that era.

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Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:45 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
The One True Wretch wrote:
largely excellent,

:shock: Really think so? Even just talking about the best stuff on both - there are barely a handful of songs that could compete with what's on Appetite. And even they seemed to have been enlongated to fuck and designed to go with those Jerry Bruckheimer type videos with Axl swimming with dolphins and all that guff. UYI2 is probably the better one and even that's only a 3 fister.

I saw them twice around that era and it was pretty clear they were beginning to circle the plug.


Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:04 pm
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Storm Trooper
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Nah the UYI are 4 fisters.

Chinese is also 4 fists up the clacker.

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Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:15 pm
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Opinionated Loudmouth. Perkele!
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
I think even the better songs were often tame in delivery compared to Appetite or even Lies, which sort of colours my view of them, as well as the disjointed nature of the albums. And no, I wouldn't rate anything as highly as the material on Appetite.

But I still love the Izzy tracks and You Could be Mine, Civil War, Estranged, Locomotive, Pretty Tied Up, Shotgun Blues, The Garden, Coma, Don't Damn Me, the original Don't Cry etc.

There are songs that are weaker though, and could have been left off, or released as b-sides or e.p. tracks - So Fine, Dead Horse, Breakdown, the alt-lyrics Don't Cry etc, and the Wings cover never should have been an album song.

And the lyrics and sentiment of 'Back Off Bitch' and especially 'Get In The Ring', even at the time, seemed pretty sad and juvenile.

It's only 'My World' and 'Knockin On Heaven's Door' that really grate on me though.

Frankly, I don't like Dylan, and I think he is vastly overrated, but I'll concede that he has been a big influence on many artists I do enjoy & has written some good songs, and I've also heard some covers I enjoy. Knockin is not one of them, and especially when they did it live, which was cringeworthy.

I don't think they could ever have followed Appetite really, but with some editing and willingness to put ego aside they could have made a more than decent attempt.

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Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:43 pm
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Darth Fucking Vader
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
I think I'd rather have cancer of the knob than hear that Bob Dylan cover ever agin.


Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:38 pm
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Which is ironic because if you had deep on-set cancer of the knob you may well be knocking on Heaven's door.


Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:20 pm
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
The One True Wretch wrote:
I think even the better songs were often tame in delivery compared to Appetite or even Lies, which sort of colours my view of them, as well as the disjointed nature of the albums. And no, I wouldn't rate anything as highly as the material on Appetite..


There are several songs on UYI that are better than My Michelle.

You just can't tell.

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Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:26 am
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Opinionated Loudmouth. Perkele!
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Nope.

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Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:07 am
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Not one.

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Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:06 pm
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
opaline wrote:
Which is ironic because if you had deep on-set cancer of the knob you may well be knocking on Heaven's door.


BAM.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:21 am
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
markhebb wrote:
opaline wrote:
Which is ironic because if you had deep on-set cancer of the knob you may well be knocking on Heaven's door.


BAM.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


He done got you on that one, please don't cry

Toniiiiiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhhey-yyyyyyyyyeyyyyyyyyyeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...

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Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:21 am
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Stat_Rad wrote:
The One True Wretch wrote:
I think even the better songs were often tame in delivery compared to Appetite or even Lies, which sort of colours my view of them, as well as the disjointed nature of the albums. And no, I wouldn't rate anything as highly as the material on Appetite..


There are several songs on UYI that are better than My Michelle.

You just can't tell.


No there aren't. You Could Be Mine is perhaps the equal of Rocket Queen, but nothing else on those double turds would have made it on to Appetite for Destruction.

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Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:15 am
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Hey now, let's not be knocking Rocket Queen...

Civil War was the standout from Use Your Illusion(s) for me.

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Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:57 pm
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
This is prime GNR. The chemistry here was just insane. They were so locked into the groove.


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Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:04 pm
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Tough to say until a band is either over or so shite that they are never going to reach the giddy heights again. I would say Motorhead's prime was 79-83, but I'm sure there's plenty who'd argue (wrongly) with that.

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Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:05 pm
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Opinionated Loudmouth. Perkele!
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
I'd agree that Motorhead prime was in that era, aye.

They certainly had peak periods and standout albums afterwards, but they were definitely at their most unique and releasing their most influential albums, as well as hitting the charts and being all over TV.

And in Britain and Europe at least, they were a massive part of pop culture while still having that outsider vibe, a kind of status and recognition which went way beyond the later fixation on Lemmy's lifestyle and status, and just repeating the same things ad nauseam.

Priest is a weird one. I suppose if you take into account their general level of fame and influence, as well as being a time when they released some of their most defining and enduring albums and were a live powerhouse, it would be in around the same time as Motorhead, although, but maybe 79 - 84.

I might make an argument for 76 - 84, seeing as the earlier albums were also influential and pioneering as far as really defining a clear idea of, and direction for heavy metal, even if they weren't quite the massive hits of their early 80's albums.

The Turbo era was huge for them in the states, especially as an arena band, and that carried over to the Ram It Down period as far as their live reputation was concerned, but the consistency and direction of the albums has obviously been questioned.

Painkiller was a definite peak afterwards obviously. Not just the album itself, but their image and performances were incredible, and they were still viewed as having recaptured something that was so purely heavy metal in a way other bands couldn't have at that point, but I suppose thats the thing, it was a return to the values and quality of the Screaming & Defenders era, and given Rob's departure and the musical climate, it probably couldn't last.

I do think they would have faired better creatively (and probably commercially in the mid - late 90's) than Maiden if Rob had stayed though, they could have adapted their sound and image to the era without losing their personality.

As long as they didn't start dressing like Fight. I can't imagine Tipton hitting the stage in baggy shorts and a hockey jersey.

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Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:44 pm
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
Mali wrote:
I would say Motorhead's prime was 79-83,

'82 surely marked the end of their very highest peak. Hard to say because they continued to be great for a long time after that. Nor was there such an obvious fall-off point and they never sucked - as with both GnR and Metallica.

The One True Wretch wrote:

Priest is a weird one. I suppose if you take into account their general level of fame and influence, as well as being a time when they released some of their most defining and enduring albums and were a live powerhouse, it would be in around the same time as Motorhead, although, but maybe 79 - 84.

I might make an argument for 76 - 84, seeing as the earlier albums were also influential and pioneering as far as really defining a clear idea of, and direction for heavy metal, even if they weren't quite the massive hits of their early 80's albums.

Sorry, but how the blue blazes do you even contemplate excluding the Sad Wings/ Stained/ Sin holy trinity from Priest's peak??????? :shock: :shock: :shock: I mean what the actual sweet beJeezus-ing fuck?!!! You of all people, Wretch.

Not angry, just very disappointed.


Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:02 pm
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Opinionated Loudmouth. Perkele!
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
robitusson wrote:
The One True Wretch wrote:

Priest is a weird one. I suppose if you take into account their general level of fame and influence, as well as being a time when they released some of their most defining and enduring albums and were a live powerhouse, it would be in around the same time as Motorhead, although, but maybe 79 - 84.

I might make an argument for 76 - 84, seeing as the earlier albums were also influential and pioneering as far as really defining a clear idea of, and direction for heavy metal, even if they weren't quite the massive hits of their early 80's albums.

Sorry, but how the blue blazes do you even contemplate excluding the Sad Wings/ Stained/ Sin holy trinity from Priest's peak??????? :shock: :shock: :shock: I mean what the actual sweet beJeezus-ing fuck?!!! You of all people, Wretch.

Not angry, just very disappointed.


Hold on, I mentioned 76 - 84, rather than just 79 - 84, which was to say, I would include Sad Wings/Stained/Sin as part of their peak. Perhaps I didn't word it properly there.

I was just thinking that the general consensus would probably be 79 - 84, in terms of international acclaim and overall fame, as well as their musical output.

That doesn't mean that I follow that train of thought, as personally, yes I would of course include those albums as part of any prime era regarding Priest.

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Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:52 pm
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
The One True Wretch wrote:
Hold on, I mentioned 76 - 84, rather than just 79 - 84, which was to say, I would include Sad Wings/Stained/Sin as part of their peak. Perhaps I didn't word it properly there.

I was just thinking that the general consensus would probably be 79 - 84, in terms of international acclaim and overall fame, as well as their musical output.

That doesn't mean that I follow that train of thought, as personally, yes I would of course include those albums as part of any prime era regarding Priest.

Fair enough. I see your point more clearly now. If that's true though, the general consensus is clearly sucking old mens willies in railway station toilets for pocket change.


Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:39 am
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Post Re: When is a band in their prime???
I get the impression that the younger generation of Priest fans don't really care that much for their pre-1980 albums.

Could be wrong though.

Sad Wings, Sin and Stained are all toppin though.

An argument could obviously be made that Painkiller was their prime. I wouldn't object to that, but I would perhaps reply by saying their main prime period was 1976-1984 and that Painkiller was an anomaly in their discography after that period, but it's just as good, if not better, than their previous heights.

I know some Priest fans don't like hearing the young bucks praise the hell out of Painkiller while ignoring Sad wings. It doesn't bother me at all. It's just a taste thing, personal preference etc. I'm happy that Painkiller now has the reputation it has because i felt it was a little underrated during the first half of the 90's

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