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Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" thread
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Author:  TRC [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Green Machine wrote:

I usually agree with you on most things guitarry Wretched, but I agree with Shallow totally. I think it's an absolute waste of time having 3x guitarists in Maiden and that they don't utilise it, seemingly in any way other than infilling and a couple of token stacked harmonies, has always been a criticism of the reformed line up for me.


I'd argue that it's not just about the music though. It's also about stage persona. It's about friendship and loyalty too. The very fact they didn't get rid of Janick, to me, just made me admire Maiden more.

Author:  The Wretch [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

TRC wrote:
Green Machine wrote:

I usually agree with you on most things guitarry Wretched, but I agree with Shallow totally. I think it's an absolute waste of time having 3x guitarists in Maiden and that they don't utilise it, seemingly in any way other than infilling and a couple of token stacked harmonies, has always been a criticism of the reformed line up for me.


I'd argue that it's not just about the music though. It's also about stage persona. It's about friendship and loyalty too. The very fact they didn't get rid of Janick, to me, just made me admire Maiden more.


Absolutely.

They don't technically need three guitarists. But even if you believe it doesn't improve their music, can anyone genuinely say it makes them weaker, or that it overpowers the music they write or their live performances? I don't really think so. I mean, if forced to choose I'd say in terms of personal taste and stronger songwriting, I would have Murray and Smith, but Janick is a good guitarist, a great showman, and clearly as much a part of the band, their general camaraderie and their appeal as anyone at this point. Maybe its not essential in terms of writing and performing, but even if you aren't a fan of Janick or you can't see any need for it, it doesn't make them a lesser band in anyway, so I don't see why anyone would be so dead against it.

Besides which, look at the comment Shallow made -

Shallowthing wrote:
They could send two of them home and I'm not sure anyone would notice.


"send two of them home". So Dave or whomever is left is going to play everything on his own is he? See? He was being silly.

Author:  oblique [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

nick drake
bert jansch
robbie robertson
muddy waters

that sort of thing. big screamy metal guitars are fun and all but i can live without them. although i do like that chap from meshuggah a bit.

Author:  robitusson [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Good call on having MICK RONSON!!! as the first pic in the op. :P :P

Most have been mentioned I'm sure but some I like are...

Image
Mascis
Image
Schenker
Probly my favourite 2 off the bat ^.

A couple more...
Image
Hanneman
Image
Cobbett
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Fahey

Load of others

Author:  Spiny Norman [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Image
The Great Mentalist. Sorry... Kat.

Author:  Spiny Norman [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Somewhere Joey DeMaio is shaking his fists in rage.

Author:  oblique [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

what a terrible thing to do to a musical instrument.

Author:  robitusson [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Yes. Yes, it is.

Author:  Stat_Rad [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Green Machine wrote:
Nah, no sale. Mint for them, fair do's, but to me it adds into my assertion that the new Iron Maiden is not a band with much to offer than new Iron Maiden products. The unexploited potential for an exponential increase in amazing studio and live musical work in exploring the relationship between 3 good-to-great guitarists is verging on travesty. So no, I don't think it does decrease the quality of what you hear, but it's another piece of evidence for the prosecution on charges of being lazy and cynical.


it's visually impossible to argue against this. There is plenty of room for scope with 3 guitarists, and adding another rhythm guitar for support just doesn't cut it. To add insult to injury, the guitars don't sound 'full' either. 3 guitarists should provide a solid wall of sound. I can barely even hear 2 half the time.

And i disagree with Wretched about Janick. By professional standards he isn't a good guitarist at all. decent showman, granted, but he is a poor musician for the type of band he is in.

Author:  hostilesteve [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

apparently, he wasnt even plugged in for half the set at twickenham

Author:  TRC [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Satellite_Radio wrote:
Green Machine wrote:
Nah, no sale. Mint for them, fair do's, but to me it adds into my assertion that the new Iron Maiden is not a band with much to offer than new Iron Maiden products. The unexploited potential for an exponential increase in amazing studio and live musical work in exploring the relationship between 3 good-to-great guitarists is verging on travesty. So no, I don't think it does decrease the quality of what you hear, but it's another piece of evidence for the prosecution on charges of being lazy and cynical.


it's visually impossible to argue against this. There is plenty of room for scope with 3 guitarists, and adding another rhythm guitar for support just doesn't cut it. To add insult to injury, the guitars don't sound 'full' either. 3 guitarists should provide a solid wall of sound. I can barely even hear 2 half the time.

And i disagree with Wretched about Janick. By professional standards he isn't a good guitarist at all. decent showman, granted, but he is a poor musician for the type of band he is in.


Granted, it's a good argument and there is a decent point made.

BUT, and I've said it before, Maiden isn't about 'having the best'. It's about camaraderie, it's about friendship. I'd say that was obvious. Adrian, Nicko, Janick and Blaze were all friends of the band before they joined. Obviously the same when Bruce and Adrian re-joined. Still friends. After being in bands myself for the last 15 years I'd say having friends in the band rather than 'the best' is far more important.

Do they need / use three guitars? From a listeners point of view, probably not, no. However, try looking at it from their point of view. And after all, it is THEIR band. Not ours.

Author:  Shallowthing [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Green Machine wrote:
I think it's an absolute waste of time having 3x guitarists in Maiden and that they don't utilise it, seemingly in any way other than infilling and a couple of token stacked harmonies, has always been a criticism of the reformed line up for me... Nah, no sale. Mint for them, fair do's, but to me it adds into my assertion that the new Iron Maiden is not a band with much to offer... The unexploited potential for an exponential increase in amazing studio and live musical work in exploring the relationship between 3 good-to-great guitarists is verging on travesty. So no, I don't think it does decrease the quality of what you hear, but it's another piece of evidence for the prosecution on charges of being lazy and cynical.

Absolutely.

TRC wrote:
The very fact they didn't get rid of Janick, to me, just made me admire Maiden more.

I also agree with this, though. Shame their musical output has pissed all that extra good will up the wall.

wretched_metal wrote:

Besides which, look at the comment Shallow made -

Shallowthing wrote:
They could send two of them home and I'm not sure anyone would notice.


"send two of them home". So Dave or whomever is left is going to play everything on his own is he? See? He was being silly.

I was using a silly-ish comment to make a serious point. I'm glad Maiden have a third guitarist; I was rubbing my hands with glee when it was announced that Bruce and Adrian would be back. However, they've done nothing with it. I vaguely recall an interview with Steve Harris in which he said something about not wanting "big guitars flying around". No, Steve, no, that's exactly what we want. That and decent production, songs that know when to stop, non-bollocks cover art and some indication, any indication, that you're in it for anything other than the pay check.

Satellite_Radio wrote:
it's visually impossible to argue against this. There is plenty of room for scope with 3 guitarists, and adding another rhythm guitar for support just doesn't cut it. To add insult to injury, the guitars don't sound 'full' either. 3 guitarists should provide a solid wall of sound. I can barely even hear 2 half the time.

EXACTLY THIS. Hence my previous comment about sending two of them home!

hostilesteve wrote:
apparently, he wasnt even plugged in for half the set at twickenham

I am totally unsurprised by this. I am, however, surprised that anyone noticed.

Author:  TRC [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Shallowthing wrote:
I was using a silly-ish comment to make a serious point. I'm glad Maiden have a third guitarist; I was rubbing my hands with glee when it was announced that Bruce and Adrian would be back. However, they've done nothing with it. I vaguely recall an interview with Steve Harris in which he said something about not wanting "big guitars flying around". No, Steve, no, that's exactly what we want. That and decent production, songs that know when to stop, non-bollocks cover art and some indication, any indication, that you're in it for anything other than the pay check.


Really, since when have Iron Maiden done what you want? They do what they want. Musically speaking anyway. Just one look at the song lengths on 'The Final Frontier' will tell you that.

As for the 'pay check' comment, they get more money from merch sales than record sales. They could all quite easily retire and live well, so no, they are not doing it for the 'pay check', they are doing it because they love to do it.

Author:  The Wretch [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Of all the successful metal bands, they are the ones who are least financially motivated when it comes to writing and playing live, and any financial rewards they do get are fully deserved. The truth is plain to see on their faces at every gig, Maiden are loving it. As well they should.

If they used more guitar people would complain that its overkill or that it's not the Maiden guitar sound, never bloody satisfied. Also, I think it shows great character that they have 3 lead guitarists and not a hint of ego. Again I say to you, even if you don't think it adds to their music, can you honestly say it is a hindrance to how they sound or what they write? No. So whats the big deal?

Author:  Captain Clegg [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

No love for Buckethead?!

Sure, he tarnished himself by playing on Chinese Democracy and looks like one of the biggest pillocks in music, but damn he's pretty good.

if I knew how to put videos up I would. But I dont. :lol:

Author:  major-general heavy [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Green Machine wrote:
He is a fucking ridiculousy good guitar player.. like a lot, his records are a bit pants though.






yep, this guy is jaw-dropping but his own 'music' is absolute shite...compare that to this awesomeness...


Author:  Stat_Rad [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Green Machine wrote:
He is a fucking ridiculousy good guitar player.. like a lot, his records are a bit pants though.


depends. He is wildly inconsistent. For every good record like Coma or Monsters and Robots, there are like 10 mediocre to bad ones. His batting average stinks.

no doubt he is an awesome player though, and as Coma proves, he doesn't need to play fast to be effective.

Author:  Lugzan [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Iommi, Akerfeldt and Petrucci.

Author:  Spiny Norman [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

wretched_metal wrote:
Of all the successful metal bands, they are the ones who are least financially motivated when it comes to writing and playing live, and any financial rewards they do get are fully deserved. The truth is plain to see on their faces at every gig, Maiden are loving it. As well they should.


TRC wrote:
since when have Iron Maiden done what you want? They do what they want. Musically speaking anyway. Just one look at the song lengths on 'The Final Frontier' will tell you that.

As for the 'pay check' comment, they get more money from merch sales than record sales. They could all quite easily retire and live well, so no, they are not doing it for the 'pay check', they are doing it because they love to do it.
Saves me writing anything.




Apart from this, obviously.

Author:  Shallowthing [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best guitarists AKA- The "I'm right, you're an idiot" th

Green Machine wrote:
Critical involvement always plays a big part of my relationship with the band, with any band.. with Maiden, like I say, a heck of a lot of things (to me) point not to what I'd consider a "proper motivation", which troubles me. All the newer Maiden albums have troubled me somewhat, and that's one of the things. Like, basically, "why isn't this better?"

I think there is a little of both forces at work these days tbh TRC. They could stop, but they've got probably one of the biggest worldwide fanbases of any metal act, and a strong brand that's somehow survived what went on in the 90's. That basically defines them as an institution, so there must be a thing of wanting to keep it turning over for the "brand"'s sake... but I don't like to think that the individuals are that cynical, I don't doubt they have a great time and like what they do. But here lies the rub - they would, wouldn't they. They can either retire into luxury, or tour the world also in total luxury with people bumming over them wherever they land. The records are kinda token to that, for my tuppence worth, anyway...

I agree with all of this. The classic Maiden line-up with bonus Janick, and the best they can manage wavers between "bland" and "offensively bollocks". What's wrong? Why aren't they amazing?

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