I was a huge fan when I was in my teens, and they were definitely a big influence when I was writing music/in bands, but One Second killed it for me. Was a big fan of Shades..., Icon and Draconian... and was gutted with where they went next. Once I'd lost the love, I just still can't get enthusiastic about the newer stuff. They turned their back on people, but metal fans are nostalgic and prepared to forgive and accept second rate stuff as long as it's a "return to roots" (not you, Tragic, I'll be honest, I can tell there's a lot of love from you for all periods of PL!) but I don't think they've got anywhere near their previous standards.

Seen them several times... a bit hazy on exactly how often, but there's:

1. London Astoria on the Icon tour (I think Die Krupps supported)
2. [Not sure but think there was a second Astoria show I went to, possibly at the start of the Draconian tour, but the memory may be playing tricks on me there]
3. Donington I'm pretty sure 96
4. Kentish Town Forum on the Draconian tour 1996 (I think this is the one Zag is talking about. It was a "Christmas" show, anyway, but I don't remember the supports, could well have been Cathedral)
5. 2006 at the LA2/Mean Fiddler. Boring. The whole event is a massive story, but we went for Anathema and missed their entire set as they went on at 6.45! Birth of the "Oh shit, it's PL!" statement that's still bandied around amongst my mates now
6. 2009 at Sonisphere. I accept that 1pm in the summer sunshine is not the most ideal time for PL. They played a load of newer stuff, received cricket applause, a few people headbung to the token older songs and that was it.

The first time was really, really good, then they got progressively worse. Nick can't sing live for shit and the band have been less and less lively or into it each time I've seen them.

I'm expecting it to be quite good, but i have no idea what it will sound like.

My order for P.L albums:

1.Draconian Times
2.Icon
3.One Second
4.Paradise Lost
5.Faith Unites Us.......
6.Shades Of God
7.Symbol Of Life
8.Host
9.In Requiem
10.Believe In Nothing
11.Lost Paradise

Thanks steve! got your point but misunderstood this one:


here is link for tour dates of 2007:

http://www.paradiselost.co.uk/tour-date ... dates.html

lot's of concerts

Nick Holmes is a bad singer. It seems he's better over the years because he's figured out his limitations, and has a LOT more experience so knows how to do what he needs to do now, but check out the live CD that came with the Draconian Times reissue, he really struggled to sing live on that tour. I also know he used to be really lazy in the studio because he wouldn't work on his singing after he switched from growling, he'd lay down the track, and not be too fussed if it was in tune or not and leave the engineer and producer to use the studio effects to get it in time/tune including masking with or mixing with backing vocals (sung by the producer) rather than keep trying until it was nailed, so when it came to the live tours he struggled.

To be fair, this is all 15+ years ago, so you'd hope he'd figure it out in the interim, and by One Second, on record at least, he was a better vocalist, but still think it took him a long time to get there live, and would still not say he's a good singer.

As for less and less lively, I know they've never been like a bunch of Janick's tearing around the stage, but they used to have an energy: Aaron Aedy headbanging away like a good, Stephen bent over his bass, getting into it. But at Sonisphere, and the LA2 show a couple of years earlier, they just seemed to just go through the motions live, standing there nodding along, no energy to it. In fact, both were quite dreary sets.

Okay!I don't know how it all goes on when they in the studio, but when i was on live at FDUDUU Tour in 2009, Nick Holmes did his best, believe. Possibly because it was first live from tour - in Saint Petersburg. And, yes, i was there and it was absolutely fantastic (not because i am fan of PL) - he sings like on album (new tracks) but some of them much better.So i disagree, what he is a bad singer. It's depends from his mood, i think-thats the reason. If he want - he use harsh, if he dont want - he sings clearly.

As for DT MMXI live DVD - he cant sings songs like Forever Failure of Yearn for a Change as on the studio album for nowdays (and he said about it on the stage and on interviews too). But he still in a good form.

Most metal vocalists that try and sing clean that started in the underground are not particularly good unless they are traditional metal vocalists. Singling out Nick Holmes is a little unfair. Is Aaron from MDB a good singer? Not really. Most doom metal vocalists are pretty ordinary. Even the singer from Anathema can be a little shaky.

What i don't get about Nick though is how he sounds better on 'One Second' than he did on the major label records.

I've got the last two PL albums and I think they are dreary 2 fisters, the songwriting is lacklustre. They aren't really "return to roots", they are just heavier than the Depeche Mode-y albums. The only improvement is Holmes' vocals, the guitars are dull and bear little resemblance to the pre-One Second albums.

I've seen Paradise Lost three times. First in the basement of Rock City on the Believe in Nothing tour, then again in Wolverhampton with Cathedral supporting, and then a final time opening for Opeth at Rock City. Bizarrely, the Believe in Nothing show was the best of the three, and not just because Nick handed me the microphone for the growly bits in 'As I Die' that he couldn't do anymore.

Steev is largely right - Paradise Lost are not first and foremost a live band, especially when Nick is pissed off. Which is usually.

this one:
http://www.gryphonmetal.ch/ParadiseLost ... n2004.html ?

Sorry Tragic, forgot about that reissue, I meant the original 1996 (?) reissue where it was released in a DVD case with a new booklet bonus live CD, but seems like the same issues are there! lol

@Sat Rad... wasn't singling out Holmes, per se, just this is a Paradise Lost thread... lol As for underground vocalists who struggled with switching from gruff to clean, don't know what you mean

yeah, now i understood what you try to explain to me. But, of course, he is older - thats the point about his voice.

Here is quote from his twitter about JHS


He is not a young boy, and he is knew this, but also he can sing well. I heard it

Here is live song from Host - 1999 (PL "Depeche Mode era")



Dealer In Facts, i had read what you like their Gothic. Here is one of many live versions (2007)

vocals are fine. very simmilar to mine live in Saint Petersburg, when i saw them.
but of course not like on record of 1991 year.
here is Eternal:

musically they are quite good. it's just Holmes that is the wild card really.

Here is The Rise Of Denial from live show (2009) where i was:



^^ cool perfomance. thats why i said what he really sings good (of course not always, but mostly he do it with a laugh)

and here is album version of a song



you can compare this 2 versions

Finally,i would thank you all for talking. I wait for new album with no worry about Paradise Lost, as always.

Were Holmes and Ghaal separated from birth like in Twins?

Which one would be the Danny DeVito?

I think My Dying Bride do this sort of thing better.

what are you talking about?

The style of music Paradise Lost play, is better when My Dying Bride do it.

Music.