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 Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from grunge. 
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Post Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from grunge.
From blabber:

Quote:
"In the '90s, when the grunge rock thing hit, with NIRVANA and all that, everybody thought it was cool to be anti-rock star. But in a way they sort of anti-rock starred themselves right out the door, because the rap guys came in and they said, 'Fuck it. We'll be the rock stars then, if you guys are going to wear flannel shirts and stare at your feet.' And in the U.S., truthfully, rock music has never recovered from that. A whole generation of kids thought, 'Fuck this! Rock music is boring. Let's go listen to rap music.' And it's never recovered. I mean, over [in the U.K.] it's different. You could never throw a festival like [Download] in the U.S. and get this many people, with just rock music. Never."
Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/rob-zo ... ckEfMGd.99


Gene Simmons made a similar point last year or the year before, but his was more in relation to the lack of rock stars.

I guess this raises a few fundamental questions: 1)is he right? Did the whole average joe rock star movement kill off rock's appeal in the mainstream? 2)is the 'rock star' truly an essential component of rock music in the commercial realm?

He may be exaggerating but it is true that grunge definitely changed the perception of rock music. It never went back to what it used to be. Even the minor rock stars like Jack White and Josh Homme in the early 00's were more average joe types that we had already seen in the 90's and were some ways even throwbacks or at least hangovers from a bygone era.

Personally i miss the days when we had figures like Zombie and Manson either in the mainstream or dancing around the periphery. It made things more interesting.

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Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:31 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Not sure where I stand on this. There's a whole bunch of different things floating around. For instance:

Is the definition of a rock star someone who has an elaborate stage show? Or someone who says outrageous things? Or lives a wild life? Grunge-era groups didn't bother with the first, sometimes engaged in the second but sometimes didn't depending on the band, and for all this weird posthumous rep they seem to have gotten as retiring shoegazers (which Zombie seems to have bought into) absolutely kicked the arse out of the third. Read a book like 'Everybody Loves Our Town' - nonstop booze, drugs, brawls, overdoses, deaths, bitching about other bands...

It may or may not have been kicked off by grunge but the whole larger-than-life, I'm going to act like King Shit of Fuck Mountain attitude is nowadays kind of...not out of date or irrelevant so much as difficult to do well, maybe people have gotten wiser and are seeing arrogance for precisely what it is, or maybe people have become more cynical and can't suspend disbelief anymore because they are empirically literal-minded, or maybe people have bought into that thing of needing to be able to 'identify' with singers (which I'm in two minds about, on the one hand it makes my piss itch that people can be so self-absorbed that they want cultural icons to come across as exactly like them, but on the other I'd rather see Eddie Vedder in concert than some bloated assclown like Gene Simmons, hiding his rotten music behind smoke and mirrors).


Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Horror films have never recoevered from Rob Zombie.

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Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:01 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Dr Yail Bloor wrote:
Horror films have never recoevered from Rob Zombie.


His films will always recover as long as his wifes bare arse, 70's pop-culture, Ken Foree and white trash detrius stays around...

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Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:09 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
His films are utter garbage

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Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:18 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Dr Yail Bloor wrote:
His films are utter garbage


I liked Devil's Rejects and Lords Of Salem but the rest can do one...

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Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:26 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Knew you would contribute something worthwhile Clint! ;)


Clint Ruin wrote:
Is the definition of a rock star someone who has an elaborate stage show? Or someone who says outrageous things? Or lives a wild life? Grunge-era groups didn't bother with the first, sometimes engaged in the second but sometimes didn't depending on the band, and for all this weird posthumous rep they seem to have gotten as retiring shoegazers (which Zombie seems to have bought into) absolutely kicked the arse out of the third. Read a book like 'Everybody Loves Our Town' - nonstop booze, drugs, brawls, overdoses, deaths, bitching about other bands...


The Oasis guys lived 'wild lives' but their music was pansy stuff and their shows were too. I think by rock star Zombie is referring to 'theatricality'. The big show, props, big sound, larger than life stage presence etc.

If we are using that as our measure, then Marilyn Manson was probably the last true rock star.

Clint Ruin wrote:
It may or may not have been kicked off by grunge but the whole larger-than-life, I'm going to act like King Shit of Fuck Mountain attitude is nowadays kind of...not out of date or irrelevant so much as difficult to do well, maybe people have gotten wiser and are seeing arrogance for precisely what it is, or maybe people have become more cynical and can't suspend disbelief anymor


But they are more accepting of it in other genres than they are in rock. Why? Pop and rap stars can get away with being superhuman and 'larger than life'.


I'd say that Zombie had the best of both worlds in the 90's. He was able to align himself with the alternative movement by dressing like a hobo, which he did before it was fashionable btw, and he also capitalised on the fact that by the mid 90's there were a lot of people getting tired of the whole 'stripped down show and sound' thing and wanted something bigger. Zombie and Marilyn Manson managed to fill the gaps in the marketplace for that kind of rock music, and so did Nine Inch Nails. They all pushed rock in a more 'visual' direction again after it had been plain for so long.

Some of the grunge bands also began moving in this direction, like Smashing Pumpkins with 'Mellon Collie........'. Mellon Collie....was not some rote grunge album. It was sprawling and ambitious and the band stepped it up visually with their clips and stage shows around that time too.

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Stat_Rad wrote:
then Marilyn Manson was probably the last true rock star.



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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
I don't know that the 'grunge' scene affected anything I liked at all. I was sill listening to Maiden, Death Metal, the UK Doom/Death bands. All was well at the time as far as I was concerned ...

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Perhaps I'm just a miserable cunt, but I don't really care about musicians being rock stars, which is what the crux of it seems to be. Rather than the quality of rock music never recovered. Which is perhaps true, I don't know. I don't follow rock music really, but you don't seem to have the quality of songs you seemed to get in the 70s and 80s.

But then, like I say, I've not really been following it, so it may just be a case of I've just not found the recent good songs, and because the popularity of the genre in the mainstream isn't what it used to be, they don't get the same exposure or fuss made over them.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:27 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Quite possibly.

I would say a good song serves a purpose, evokes a feeling or mood. And it's quality should be judged on how well you deem it achieves what it sets out to do. Though that's just as subjective.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:52 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
maybe, but i think it's quite clear that rock is in a rut now. No major innovations or style have come about in a while.

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
CONDOLENC wrote:

But then, doesn't that make a well-engineered pop ditty that achieves its sales targets a good tune? Does that have to be conceded? And if a nursery rhyme succeeds in amusing a baby... and if "Angels" gets a field of 100,000 people singing and gets reproduced in karaoke events forevermore?


I would say so. I would also say that rock and pop serve different purposes. I appreciate pop music for entirely different, but no less valid reasons. More skill goes into making a modern pop song than the average 3 chord, 4/4time, ABCBCDC structured, rock song.

I feel modern popular music is akin to the popular film industry.
Your 'artist' is your lead actor.
The song has a writer/team of writers, much like the writers of a screen play.
You have a producer, which is probably more like the director in the film analogy.
Session Musicians are your fellow actors.
Studio tech's are your crew.
Sequencing, and pitch correction and all the digital manipulating could bee seen as like post produciton CGI.
Mixing the song, is like editing the film
Record Label is like film studio.
Promotion for the single might include a music video, which is like a trailer.
It's all about how you market it, what interviews you get, what magazines you end up in, what chat shows you go on.

Pop music is a business, and industry. You have to get the balance right, you have to sound relevant enough so as not to alienate potential fans, yet you have to stand out enough so as not to be forgotten about. There are certain expected standards that the pop 'teams' have to achieve.

And if that song does well, and reaches a high chart position and does well, then yes I think it's fair to say it's a good tune. It's achieved what it set out to do. In the pop business it's quite easy to gauge as pop music if geared towards sales, so sales figures can be used to equate success. It doesn't necessarily make it a good piece of music. But it does make it a pop song, which at the end of the day is it's purpose. There's no point holding it standards that it doesn't adhere to or seek to achieve. It is what it is and should be judged within those perimeters.

100,000 people singing your song back at you? I'd say that was successful, and achieves what it sets out to. Angels is a pop ballad, and as far as pop ballads goes, it ticks all the boxes, other than perhaps the Key change (it's been a while since I last listened to t and am not sure), though I think that the key change is something that has increased in popularity in the wake of the late 00's x factor winners singles, with their formulaic ballads.

---

Nursery Rhymes, why not? There's obviously a reason they still exist, and have been used and sung for so long. How many modern nursery rhymes are there? I'm pretty sure most of the nursery rhymes I was sung as a child pre-dated me by a few hundred years. The fact they have enjoyed such longevity, and still remain relevant must speak something for their inherent quality as nursery rhymes. Again, not necessarily good pieces of music, but serve their purpose and serve it well, though there's not a standard nursery rhyme, and I'm sure there are those that are more popular than others.

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
CONDOLENC wrote:
I personally enjoy a lot of music from all the eras in question, from Led Zep to Captain Beyond to Cinderella to Maiden to AIC and beyond..


All fine artistes to be sure.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:46 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Cinderella are fucking great and that's no lie.

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Quote:
"A whole generation of kids thought, 'Fuck this! Rock music is boring. Let's go listen to rap music.' And it's never recovered. I mean, over [in the U.K.] it's different. You could never throw a festival like [Download] in the U.S. and get this many people, with just rock music. Never."


Is that really true about US rock festivals not being able to attract Download-scale attendance figures? That seems mighty weird if so. I dunno why he thinks the UK is different - who are the big exciting British rock stars that Gene reckons have emerged in the last 20 years? Ian Watkins?

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Do Bullet For My Valentine count? They'll never be Kiss big but they can gather a reasonably sized audience.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:44 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Chantler wrote:
Quote:
"A whole generation of kids thought, 'Fuck this! Rock music is boring. Let's go listen to rap music.' And it's never recovered. I mean, over [in the U.K.] it's different. You could never throw a festival like [Download] in the U.S. and get this many people, with just rock music. Never."


Is that really true about US rock festivals not being able to attract Download-scale attendance figures? That seems mighty weird if so. I dunno why he thinks the UK is different


I think it was on Sam Dunn's Metal Evolution programme where someone from an american band (I can't remember who, unfortunately) said that UK festivals like Sonisphere, Bloodstock, and Download were so much better than US ones, not because of the size of the crowds, but due to the variety on offer from the different styles of bands.
It seems in the US, they'll fill a weekend with the same style of band (the quote went something like "In the UK, you'll have Death Metal followed by Power Metal, but in the States it'll just be one band after another who dress and sound exactly the same").
The general vibe was that some/most Americans Metal fans like a lot of the same thing rather than a little of everything.

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Argh. You might be right, if so it's a measure of how dead we are culturally as a species. I heard someone say "the British rock band Coldplay" the other day and sustained a brow-furrowing injury.

O and rock stars have always had populist appeal, though it seems odd remembering a time when really good music was also really popular.

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
There is nothing 'rock' at all about the tepid dirge that Coldplay produce. At least Oasis and Blur had a bit of oomph and a few good tunes. Coldplay are just bland.

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