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 Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from grunge. 
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Cromwell wrote:
There is nothing 'rock' at all about the tepid dirge that Coldplay produce. At least Oasis and Blur had a bit of oomph and a few good tunes. Coldplay are just bland.


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Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:21 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Cromwell wrote:
At least Oasis and Blur had a bit of oomph and a few good tunes.


Shame they never got around to releasing it.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:48 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
CONDOLENC wrote:
And I still can't let go of what makes something "good". I mean.. screamed vocals mean that something is even questioned as being music to a lot of people I know,


Could you not argue that it's a gap in their knowledge/appreciation? And that in some respects their opinions on matters concerning harsh vocals are less valid.

Again, bringing it back to fit for purpose, harsh vocals serve a purpose (most of the time anyway), but that purpose doesn't suit everyone.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Rob Zombie has never really done anything good, so who cares?

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:38 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Annihislater wrote:
CONDOLENC wrote:
And I still can't let go of what makes something "good". I mean.. screamed vocals mean that something is even questioned as being music to a lot of people I know,


Could you not argue that it's a gap in their knowledge/appreciation? And that in some respects their opinions on matters concerning harsh vocals are less valid.

Again, bringing it back to fit for purpose, harsh vocals serve a purpose (most of the time anyway), but that purpose doesn't suit everyone.


Yeh and this is ultimately where the comparisons between generations breaks down. There is nothing 'extreme' that we haven't heard before being produced by the younger generations. It's just more of the same. Death metal is the same, black metal is the same, screamo is the same shite it always was et c etc.

The reason we are 'stuck' now is because nothing has really changed in the last 10 years. Even the big post-hardcore/post-rock thing ala Isis is 10 years old and that, along with drone doom, was the last significant thing to happen in metal. and if you were into bands like Neurosis in the 90's, it was kind of fucking boring and late anyway.

I know stuff like Alcest really appeals to people, but i don't see that as a significant advance of any sub-genre. It's relatively easy to listen to and understand and isn't challenging in the least.


COND: we had rock stars AND blastbeats in the 90's mate. NO excuses! ;)

I liked 'Astro Creep' a lot at the time too. It was poppy but also kind of strange at the same time. 'More Human Than Human' was definitely unusual for a metal song, or for any song on the charts for that matter. Cynics accused Zombie of ripping of Al.J, but Ministry never wrote a song quite like that.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:43 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Stat_Rad wrote:
I know stuff like Alcest really appeals to people, but i don't see that as a significant advance of any sub-genre. It's relatively easy to listen to and understand and isn't challenging in the least.


Does music have to be challenging to have any inherent value?

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:40 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Annihislater wrote:
Stat_Rad wrote:
I know stuff like Alcest really appeals to people, but i don't see that as a significant advance of any sub-genre. It's relatively easy to listen to and understand and isn't challenging in the least.


Does music have to be challenging to have any inherent value?


No, but i think that genres don't really move forward without an appropriate challenge, with few exceptions.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:42 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
So is Mr. Zombie referring to bands not having the big stage shows, or there not being any (clichéd) "rock stars", or the quality of music? What exactly is grunge to blame for?

Reading the whole article, it would appear he is referring to big, 'stage show' productions. I guess he is right in a sense, but it isn't like the really large end of the spectrum, say Metallica for example, are really struggling to put on a big production. Isn't it more about the lower tier bands not having the funds?

Surely that is more to do income a band makes (or rather doesn't make from album sales in this day and age that they once did) in order to put on that type of show more than a loose musical movement that happened 2 decades ago. Sure, it possibly influenced more bands to go the route of the 'simple' show, but did it convince people that having those things were inherently bad or in poor taste? Personally, I'd be disappointed if I saw Priest and Halford didn't come out on a Harley.

So I guess perhaps because of monetary constraints it is more difficult to put on such a show, but I don't think people are necessarily against it (no accounting for taste however).

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
I've no idea why anyone would give a flying fuck what Rob Zombie's opinion is about anything. Ditto Gene Simmons. Fuck those cunts.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:43 am
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Chinese Whispers wrote:
Isn't it more about the lower tier bands not having the funds?

Surely that is more to do income a band makes (or rather doesn't make from album sales in this day and age that they once did) in order to put on that type of show more than a loose musical movement that happened 2 decades ago.


Rob Flynn was saying pretty much this a while ago, in that bands of Machine Head's level just can't put on huge shows, and he was comparing to pearl Jam who he'd recently seen and said they could afford to put on a much bigger show and play for longer as they could absorb any venue fines, etc, whereas lower level bands would be crippled by them.

I think Maiden charge £1million per show, I read somewhere, so you can see how they manage to put on such huge productions. Metallica must easily charge that too.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:15 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Machine Head never put on 'huge' shows though did they?


CHINESE: I think Zombie's point is that rock isn't as big anymore because of the lack of stars and 'coolness', which inevitably affects the kind of shows bands can put on. The success of grunge helped put a huge dent in the whole concept of the 'star' and the 'big show' and rock never recovered from that.

I do think he is largely correct, even if there are other mitigating factors. e.g downloading etc.


CONDO is correct that this is somewhat a big whinge about how things aren't what they used to be, but i also think that, given the increasing marginalisation of rock in the mainstream since the mid 00's, it's a much bigger issue than simple nostalgia or longing for one's youth.

Of course it doesn't mean the end of rock, but it could perhaps mean that less kids move into rock in the future, which wont' be good for the genre as a whole.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Machine Head, no, not really. But the advent of the internet has given Flynn another avenue to share his thoughts with us :?

Ok, so to recap - we have rockstars, so rock is popular. Grunge comes along, makes the rockstar lifestyle not as desirable. Rock goes to shit.

So... having rockstars and big, elaborate stage shows would make rock better?

Ok, ok. I get what he is at. But is he just not thinking that maybe other styles have emerged that the younger generation have adopted as their own (whether that be rap/hip-hop, or EDM, or whatever). Obviously rock as a style possibly has to answer for the fact that it really hasn't gone through any major shake-ups - or at least ones that have pushed into view in a mainstream context.

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Chinese Whispers wrote:
But is he just not thinking that maybe other styles have emerged that the younger generation have adopted as their own (whether that be rap/hip-hop, or EDM, or whatever). Obviously rock as a style possibly has to answer for the fact that it really hasn't gone through any major shake-ups - or at least ones that have pushed into view in a mainstream context.


actually he is thinking that. He thinks that kids gave up on rock and went to other genres.

I heard the same argument about 5 years ago from an old hip-hop buddy of mine who basically said that rock had no 'game plan' after the death of nu-metal and basically lost its mainstream following. All that came after that was emo and emo was pants compared to previous genres of rock. It was nowhere near as popular.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:54 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
It is probably a fair argument, but I think it has more to do with mainstream appeal more than actual ideas (not that I'm saying that is the case here). If you look at jazz, you could make the same argument, to the point where it is barely a dent in anything commercial, but there are certainly people still looking to push boundaries, just that as you become more experimental you tend to forsake a larger audience.

To look at today, you have a lot of innovating, or at the least advancement, in techniques available in electronic music (I'd say that modern, commercial rap fits into this category as well as it is much of a muchness). You could level a lot of different accusations at current electronic music, but it'd be a stretch to say that it wasn't at the least looking to progress, something that 'rock' has probably fallen behind in (just need to look at the fact the majority of bigger or acclaimed rock groups having a more retro sound and/or aesthetic).

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Stat_Rad wrote:
Machine Head never put on 'huge' shows though did they?


And Flynn was moaning that this was because they couldn't afford to do so, not because they didn't want to.

He could have written less shitty albums, that might have helped him...

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
I havent recovered from his awful films! Even Cradle Of Fear was better! As for his music I only remember one original song (Superbeast) and a Sabbath cover which Master did better!


Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:55 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Cromwell wrote:
Stat_Rad wrote:
Machine Head never put on 'huge' shows though did they?


And Flynn was moaning that this was because they couldn't afford to do so, not because they didn't want to.

He could have written less shitty albums, that might have helped him...


Machine Head are lucky that they are still a commercially viable band at all. After 'Supercharger' their career was in big trouble. So much that ex-bassist Adam Duce said that they were considering the very real possibility that they would have to do something else with the rest of their lives.

Compared to their contemporaries like Fear Factory, they are doing extremely well and really have nothing to complain about.

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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
FF > MH (not Motorhead)


Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:47 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Flynn does seem to like a good grumble though. For a burly man from the 'streets' developing bulimia and doing such terrible music, he's very lucky to still be going.

On the plus, as least whilst their attempts to push their sound were not good choices, at least they tried. FF just put out shitter and shitter versions of Demanufacture.

I can kind of see where Zombie is coming from, given that there really aren't any big figures in the way there used to be, with rock being so mainstream and the successful bits being watered down and pop musicians claiming to be rock 'n' roll, it kind of is within rap more that you get those extreme individuals.

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Great tits and slow as fuck doom are Cromwell's Raison d'être.


Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Rob Zombie claims that U.S rock never recovered from gru
Stat_Rad wrote:
So much that ex-bassist Adam Duce said that they were considering the very real possibility that they would have to do something else with the rest of their lives.


Ironically, now Duce does have to do something else!!!

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