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 Phil Anselmo (racism in metal) 
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
ChrisLiebing wrote:
The cynicism here is astounding. I doubt Flynn was self serving; just calling him out. After all he performed at the same gig; he wasn't some random commentator adding his two cents. And good on him for doing so. Maybe in other parts of the world this isn't a problem, but there is a nasty right wing slant in the metal community State side and someone needed to call it out. Whether you're a MH fan or not is irrelevant.


Racism exists on the left too, it is just hidden better.

As for Flynn, maybe, but either way he was probably trying to distance himself from it.

Axel Rosenberg's article on Metal Sludge was closer to the mark than Flynn's rant

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:01 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Phil has form for questionable behaviour...

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:05 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Dr Yail Bloor wrote:
Whilst Phil is a dickhead Robb Flynn can fuck right off.

I agree. Anselmo is a fucking idiot. Flynn weighing in on it just seems like looking for attention. And he's a cunt.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:16 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Stat_Rad wrote:

Racism exists on the left too, it is just hidden better.


100%.

And just because Mustaine is a supporter of right-wing politics in America it doesn't make him some kind of Nazi, white power guy.

I agree with Baphomet. I'm not offended by this particularly. Anselmo does something idiotic. Hardly out of character.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:17 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Triggmartyr wrote:
Phil has form for questionable behaviour...


... And that is the exact point Rob Flynns is trying to make: people standing up and saying "it's OK, that's goofy Phil, he's like that" is simply not good enough.

Personally, I don't really care about Flynn's motives: This is something that has clearly been bubbling under for a long time and it needs to be given this kind of exposure.

The reason why I wasn't sure of this deserved it's own thread was based on the potential for another, similar thread to already exist. I certainly believe the subject should be brought into the open and discussed.

As someone who studied American History at Uni (albeit many years ago) I am only too aware of the divides in the country. However, it still astonishes me that these sort of beliefs are still so prevalent.

It's all too easy to label Phil Anselmo as a drunk and an idiot when we should really be calling him out for what he is ie a racist.

As for Mustaine : well, that doesn't really surprise me. I'm sure we'll get Nugent weighing in for his defence shortly. They are all blights on modern society.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:31 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
What difference does it make whether he is a racist or not? At this point it's looking like a character assassination. Phil was a great metal frontman, one of the best of all time in his prime, so who fucking cares? What matters is his contribution to metal, and his contribution to metal has nothing to do with politics.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:44 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Why are all the Aussies not offended?

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:49 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Chinese Whispers wrote:
As for Robb Flynn, in fairness, I think he is probably trying to distance himself from the whole debacle considering he was there on stage with Anselmo and probably didn't want to be seen condoning such behaviour (which is understandable).

Agree. (His oppressive white men and history of American racism spiel was highly tedious though.)


Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:52 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Arghoslent are incredibly racist, but their music is brilliant...


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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:54 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
If you're not offended by this sort of thing then I would go away and have a long hard look at yourself, if i were you.

Too bloody right it's character assassination: At this point, his contribution to metal is largely irrelevant (in reality, he hasn't been a great metal frontman for a long time).

Although I don't condone it, t's one thing to have certain meanings within lyrics: After all, it should be a free country. However, it's something else completely to stand up on stage and incite this sort of behaviour/attitude. It has no place in our society.

We will never eradicate racism, unfortunately, but it is our duty to condemn it when it does raise it's ugly head in public environments.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:59 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Vim Fuego wrote:
Why are all the Aussies not offended?


Because we hate darkies obviously!

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:59 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Cuchulainn wrote:
Arghoslent are incredibly racist, but their music is brilliant...



Those metuLz racists choose some good artists for their album covers! Thomas Cole there, Theodor Kittelsen on those Burzum albums.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:00 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Vim Fuego wrote:
Why are all the Aussies not offended?


We're far too laid back to get in on the moral outrage. Worse stuff is probably happening right now than some idiot looking for attention. He wasn't exactly committing a hate crime, just being willfully obnoxious and ignorant. Like I said, there are plenty of bands and individuals in the metal community alone who we give a pass to for doing and saying a lot worse.

Personally, it doesn't sit right with me (the whole concept of race superiority in any sense), but I've seen a lot worse in real life, and I hardly feel that demonising someone is really progress towards positive solutions.

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Last edited by Chinese Whispers on Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:00 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
doomrider wrote:
Too bloody right it's character assassination: At this point, his contribution to metal is largely irrelevant (in reality, he hasn't been a great metal frontman for a long time)..


If he is so irrelevant then why the concern about this potentially 'inciting' questionable behaviour?

This is just another fake outrage thing like the rest of them. Even if there really were that many neo-nazis in society waiting for their chance to seize power again--a leftist myth if there ever was one--they certainly aren't going to be motivated by an inappropriate gesture made by a 'washed up' metal star.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:03 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
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Richard Wagner. Racist. Music rules.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:07 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
For me it's not just the poor choice in words it's how it's said and the intonation/direction of them. To direct a racial term or something similar with real venom or directly at a minority is different to saying something dumb and distasteful whilst drunk. As I've said I'm not defending the guy at all but maybe a touch of perspective? I suppose in a way it has opened up a discussion that's been under the surface for some time but I fear things such as this and the recent sexism article are just being used to beat metal over the head in the mainstream press.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:44 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
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If he is so irrelevant then why the concern about this potentially 'inciting' questionable behaviour?


I didn't say he was irrelevant, I said he hasn't been a great frontman for a long time.

I don't think we should go overboard with the wide-ranging implications of this. However, as I said above, when things like this happen, whether they be perpetrated by the famous or the not-so-famous, we have a duty to not ignore it.

Edit: for clarification, I meant whilst Anselmo used to be a relevant figure in the metal world, those days are gone and his image and credit have diminished greatly over the years.

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Last edited by doomrider on Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:53 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Ok, I understand that, but there is a way of handling it, and I don't think Flynn handled it correctly. That's my opinion.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:58 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
doomrider wrote:
If you're not offended by this sort of thing then I would go away and have a long hard look at yourself, if i were you.

Too bloody right it's character assassination: At this point, his contribution to metal is largely irrelevant (in reality, he hasn't been a great metal frontman for a long time).

Although I don't condone it, t's one thing to have certain meanings within lyrics: After all, it should be a free country. However, it's something else completely to stand up on stage and incite this sort of behaviour/attitude. It has no place in our society.

We will never eradicate racism, unfortunately, but it is our duty to condemn it when it does raise it's ugly head in public environments.


I'm not "offended" by his behaviour or by the fuckwits either defending him or saying it doesn't matter. That doesn't mean that I don't think he's an idiot on multiple levels or think he shouldn't have done it or have been called out on it. I watched the first few minutes of Flynn's response and have a new found respect for him, he's articulate and cogent on the issue and I think he's response is completely justified.

Some of the people who are saying it doesn't matter are probably incapable of looking at themselves or changing. You are correct that his contribution to Metal is almost entirely historical and it's unlikely that he will do anything that will make more than a ripple at this point. His general idiocy doesn't invalidate his legacy but it doesn't give him a free pass, either.

Racism, unfortunately does have a place in out society and isn't ever going to go away, cunts with those views: and a disproportionate amount of people with those views will be stupid, damaged, malevolent or a combination of all three; have the right to an opionion, but so does everyone else.

Dave Mustaine, politics aside, is a cunt. If he's fighting your corner, there's probably a problem with you. I like forward to Joseph Fritzl and Ian Brady's defence of Anselmo.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:00 am
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Post Re: Phil Anselmo (racism in metal)
Dr Yail Bloor wrote:
but I fear things such as this and the recent sexism article are just being used to beat metal over the head in the mainstream press.


I suppose, almost hypocritically, it could be used by more mainstream outlets to characterise a whole sub-culture off the behaviour of a few.

To play Devil's advocate, he wasn't breaking any laws (that I am aware of), and, as much as I hate it being used as a crutch/deflection for having no real empirical evidence or forethought into the subject, was 'exercising his freedom of speech' that Americans are so found of (and tends to lead to a circular argument between imbeciles), nor is he limiting anyone's rights by doing so. There are perhaps some gullible and suggestible people who might feel justified in his actions, but they are on the fringes and no argument or pragmatic thinking is going to change their mind at this point. Institutionalised racism is a far bigger problem that we'd be better off looking for a positive solution to.

Is the question of whether racism is a problem in the metal sub-culture a question worth asking?

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