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 Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists to 1 
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Korn.

The first two were five and four fists respetively (maybe a three for Life Is Peachy) then they nosedived to one for Follow The Leader.

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:15 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Not that I listen to them anymore, but Life Is Peachy was 1.5/5 at best. Awful album, whereas Follow The Leader (3/5) was far superior, if more commercial. It'd socre a bit higher if not for the fucking stupid empty tracks thing at the beginning. They have no 5/5s in their discography, however.

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Solaris wrote:
Not that I listen to them anymore, but Life Is Peachy was 1.5/5 at best. Awful album, whereas Follow The Leader (3/5) was far superior, if more commercial. It'd socre a bit higher if not for the fucking stupid empty tracks thing at the beginning. They have no 5/5s in their discography, however.


I just find Follow The Leader poorly executed and totally lacking in any drive or impetus. They were more interested in persuing the rockstar lifestyle at that point. And the rap-battle with Fred Durst can fuck the fuck off and when it get's there, it can fuck off some more. Korn peaked with 'Untouchables'. The dubstep album is a joke too.

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:09 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Untouchables is the last one I listened to, it was alright but they'd lost my interest by that point. I saw them on that tour (free ticket, it'd have been rude not to) and they were only OK then, especially compared to when I saw them on their first show here.

Obviously anything involving Fred Durst can fuck off.

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Alright, I've flip-flopped on this a lot and given contradicting statements from time to time, but I'll stand up and say it: I like the first four Korn albums.

None are above a 3/5 and a lot of the lyrics are a fucking joke but for three years or so they had something interesting going on, however, they ought to have bowed out at the turn of the millennium.


Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:04 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Triggmartyr wrote:
Solaris wrote:
Not that I listen to them anymore, but Life Is Peachy was 1.5/5 at best. Awful album, whereas Follow The Leader (3/5) was far superior, if more commercial. It'd socre a bit higher if not for the fucking stupid empty tracks thing at the beginning. They have no 5/5s in their discography, however.


I just find Follow The Leader poorly executed and totally lacking in any drive or impetus. They were more interested in persuing the rockstar lifestyle at that point. And the rap-battle with Fred Durst can fuck the fuck off and when it get's there, it can fuck off some more. Korn peaked with 'Untouchables'. The dubstep album is a joke too.


Follow The Leader and The Untouchables were very overproduced. I prefer Issues to both of them. Their untitled album was an entertaining mess too, but Korn are bloody hard to stomach in 2016. I'm surprised they are still around. Good luck to them I suppose, they beat the odds, but I can't be arsed listening to new music from them, not even for old time's sake. Unlike Deftones, they haven't improved with time. The last few Deftones albums make their first two sound completely redundant at this point. Even parts of White Pony sound dodgy to me, and I always regarded that as their magnum opus, but I digress. You just can't say that about Korn. They peaked decades ago and they will never regain their previous form, which wasn't all that impressive to begin with.

Clint is right that they probably should have thrown in the towel 15 years ago, but there was just too much money in it for them. They were still selling a lot of albums until around 2006 or so.

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:38 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Similar experience, I and a mate drank a lot before that gig. I could hardly move the next day, my kidneys were so sore.

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:16 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Korn's first album is alright, if a bit amateurish when I listen to it now. 'Life Is Peachy' has the odd good moment, but a lot (a real lot) of filler. I'd probably rate 'Follow The Leader' a tad higher. It's fair to say it is overproduced for sure, but the songwriting is also better. I stopped there though so I can't really comment on the rest of their career, other than knowing that some really rate 'Untouchables', and the thought of Korn doing a dubstep album (which I have heard one song from) is kind of like a car crash moment.

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:01 am
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
I think Fear Factory belong here. You had the one,two punch of Soul of a New Machine and Demanufacture but after that? Obsolete sounded stale and forced,and Digimortal was sub-nu metal groove pish with a sprinkling of rap to finish it off.

Archetype was a decent comeback (at least,i quite enjoy it),but Transgression was a badly produced mess and since Dino's return most of what they've put out has been over-produced,sterile (especially The Industrialist) and seems to have more in common sound-wise with dino's Divine Heresy,which was a naff Killswitch Engage clone.

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:45 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Aye I would say Digimortal after Obsolete which is fuckin brilliant! is a mighty fall.

Archetype was a great comeback then Transgressions is absolute baws.

Even the first Korn album is unlistenable to me these days, hate the drum sound, the whiny vocals, that talentless cunt rattling the strings on his bass, just everything about it.
I didn't think anyone who listened to Korn when the first album came out were still bothering with them by the time of the 4th.

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Chinese Whispers wrote:
Korn's first album is alright, if a bit amateurish when I listen to it now. 'Life Is Peachy' has the odd good moment, but a lot (a real lot) of filler. I'd probably rate 'Follow The Leader' a tad higher. It's fair to say it is overproduced for sure, but the songwriting is also better. I stopped there though so I can't really comment on the rest of their career, other than knowing that some really rate 'Untouchables', and the thought of Korn doing a dubstep album (which I have heard one song from) is kind of like a car crash moment.


The band didn't really nail their sound until Life Is Peachy. That is something that is rarely mentioned and whenever I say it people look at me sideways, but Korn's debut is too raw sounding to define what they later became. Life Is Peachy is when that polished 'clip' sound came into play and that was the beginning of Korn as a tight professional unit.

Unfortunately the album itself is patchy because it was recorded relatively quickly to appease their record label who felt Korn had spent too long promoting their debut and they wanted new product ASAP.


WATP: When I was in high school, Korn weren't popular. I barely knew anyone that listened to them. Life Is Peachy came out when I was in my final year, and I do recall that A.D.I.D.A.S song being somewhat popular, but they were not a huge band by any stretch. I knew more people that listened to Machine Head than Korn in the mid 90's. And like you, I didn't really know anyone that was still listening to them after 1999/2000. The few friends of mine that did like nu-metal couldn't be arsed with Korn once more 'fun' bands like Disturbed and Slipknot came along, bands with more attitude etc. Korn just seemed like day old eggs compared to those guys in the year 2000.

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Korn became popular when I was in college, round about 1996-1997. It seemed that Adidas tracksuits became standard rock apparel overnight. Even one lad who dressed like Jim Morrison ended up joining that bandwagon. But you're all right. After 2000, it seemed that the likes of Slipknot, Disturbed and (fucking) Papa Roach became the go-to bands for disaffected teens. Hell, even Marilyn Manson had that mantle before he decided he was actually a 1920's German who liked absinthe and music hall. After 'Untouchables' and a (pretty shitty) cover of 'Word Up', I cannot recall anything by them until the dubstep album - an album which STILL has songs about school bullies, like despite having left school about 20 years previous, and had a lot of success and money plus a porn star wife, is still something that gets to Jon Davis. I swear that album was Korn's St Anger/Lulu moment where you're laughing AT them instead of WITH them...

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:48 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Stat_Rad wrote:
The band didn't really nail their sound until Life Is Peachy. That is something that is rarely mentioned and whenever I say it people look at me sideways, but Korn's debut is too raw sounding to define what they later became. Life Is Peachy is when that polished 'clip' sound came into play and that was the beginning of Korn as a tight professional unit.


I guess that is what I mean by the debut sounding 'amateurish'. The musicianship isn't very tight, which was really kind of a distinguishing feature of nu-metal, that tight, gated sound (the Helmet influence I guess, maybe some electronic-inclined industrial). The drums are pretty loose, and even the guitars lack the polish that is their calling card. It's all pretty live, which is a benefit, but I must admit that listening to it later in life, it is surprising how much more that factor stands out compared to when I was a teenager first hearing the band.

Agreed that 'Life is Peachy' is really the master plan to their (and I guess by extension, Ross Robinson's) sound that became the blueprint to so many bands of that persuasion.

They seemed far more underground in their earlier years, at least where I grew up. Up until 'Follow The Leader', when 'Freak On A Leash' started getting video/radio play. You would always see their logo scrawled everywhere around though. Kudos to the pre-internet viral marketing.

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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
U2. Boy was a good punk album, October bordered on metal but from War they started going downhill but with the occaisional good song.


Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:16 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
blacklorre wrote:
U2. Boy was a good punk album

Have you heard The Skids, Blacky? U2 desperately tried to rip them off on 'Boy' but they couldn't play that well. Check them out.

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Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:46 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
That cherridee song they did with Green Day a few years ago was a Skids song, wasn't it?

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Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Chinese Whispers wrote:
I guess that is what I mean by the debut sounding 'amateurish'. The musicianship isn't very tight, which was really kind of a distinguishing feature of nu-metal, that tight, gated sound (the Helmet influence I guess, maybe some electronic-inclined industrial). The drums are pretty loose, and even the guitars lack the polish that is their calling card. It's all pretty live, which is a benefit, but I must admit that listening to it later in life, it is surprising how much more that factor stands out compared to when I was a teenager first hearing the band.


The budget sound of that album is proof that the label didn't really know what they had. If they did, they would have invested a lot more money in them in 1994. I still recall a review of their debut in Hot Metal which basically accused Korn of being a Frankenstein like creation without an original sound of its own. i.e a bit of Helmet here, a bit of Cypress Hill there etc. It would be impossible to argue that about Life Is Peachy though. They had a truly definitive sound at that point, for better or worse.

The reason Follow The Leader sounded like a million dollars in 1998 is because Korn were already a proven commodity and the label saw the potential for them to grow further. From a business of view it was a great decision, but musically they just went downhill shortly after.

As for Ross Robinson, he is still working, but mostly with bands that I've never heard a note of. e.g Red Fang, The Contortionist etc. His best work was done after the nu-metal period anyway. e.g ATDI Relationship of Command and Glassjaw's Worship and Tribute. They sound amazing. I liked that Amen album today, We have Come For Your Parents. With those records he proved that he was a real bonafide producer and not just a one trick pony.

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Last edited by Stat_Rad on Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:55 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Solaris wrote:
That cherridee song they did with Green Day a few years ago was a Skids song, wasn't it?

They attempted a version of The Skids' 'The Saints Are Coming'. It was fucking shite.

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Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:04 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Dont know Skids gonna check em out!


Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:08 pm
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Post Re: Fall From Grace - bands that went straight from 5 fists
Wasn't one of the guys from Big Country in The Skids? He also did the soundtrack to a movie called Restless Natives.

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