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Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem
http://forum.terrorizer.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8650
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Author:  robitusson [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Pity the board is so thinned out these days - there's hardly anyone left now to discuss a topic like this. Whether people agree with the premise of an article like this or not, it's certainly high time it came up.

http://decibelmagazine.com/blog/2016/6/ ... jw-problem

Quote:
Does the Underground Metal Scene REALLY Have a Social Justice Warrior Problem?

....

In recent months, however, a number of members of the scene, some self-described Social Justice Warriors (or SJWs), have infiltrated extreme music to push self-serving agendas under the banner of “inclusion” and “safety” going so far to call out those they oppose with the use of incessant signal boosting in social media in order to slam the door on free artistic expression. Many of these folks fall into the “scene tourist” category, merely moving from scene to scene with the stated goal of increasing diversity—yet are closely appended to a myriad of politicking activities. The ultimate goal for many of these individuals is to cleanse the scene of the aspects they find objectionable, congratulate themselves and move on… with a maybe a promotion or three towards their blogs, zines, books, politics and events.

....

This, of course, harkens the metal community back to the days of Tipper Gore and the PMRC who’s goal it was to make music “safer” for the masses, when the reality was that the PMRC was really involved in further their own political agendas and careers outside of art. A key difference this time around is that instead of using the excuse that the music is “filthy” (yes, the actual term the PMRC used), they argue that the music contains barriers to a variety of “vulnerable” people.


Absolutely right about the comparison with Tipper Gore imo. The modern day left ARE the Christian right of the 80's - just wanting to do what's best for others who can't seem to arrive at the right opinion by themselves, pressuring for the correct cultural change. And they're no different in metal unfortunately.

But I disagree that these are "scene tourists". Most of these censorious or thought-police types are long-term, committed fans, musicians, industry people in general and of course journos.

Plus, it's been going on for years and years now, not just recent months.

Author:  doomrider [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

I'm not involved in the "scene" directly, so I can't really comment. However, I was around when the PMRC were at their peak.

To be clear: I assume you are talking about the sanitisation of music by those that have the power deliberately favouring the more sanitised acts/artists?

Author:  robitusson [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

doomrider wrote:
I'm not involved in the "scene" directly, so I can't really comment. However, I was around when the PMRC were at their peak.

To be clear: I assume you are talking about the sanitisation of music by those that have the power deliberately favouring the more sanitised acts/artists?

It's just part of a bigger picture as FMV alluded to. Such as the hounding of video game players as sexist, the Oscars supposedly being "white", Rhodes must fall, etc.

Here are some recent links by way of examples...

https://bitchmedia.org/article/smashing ... ge-hearken

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/death-metal-misogyny

http://www.leedsbeckett.ac.uk/news/1015 ... new-study/

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/ ... fe-at-gigs

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/agoraphobic ... -interview

etc.

It's in Tez a lot too unfortunately. Or certainly seemed to be the last few times I looked.

Author:  doomrider [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

robitusson wrote:
doomrider wrote:
I'm not involved in the "scene" directly, so I can't really comment. However, I was around when the PMRC were at their peak.

To be clear: I assume you are talking about the sanitisation of music by those that have the power deliberately favouring the more sanitised acts/artists?

It's just part of a bigger picture as FMV alluded to. Such as the hounding of video game players as sexist, the Oscars supposedly being "white", Rhodes must fall, etc.

Here are some recent links by way of examples...

https://bitchmedia.org/article/smashing ... ge-hearken

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/death-metal-misogyny

http://www.leedsbeckett.ac.uk/news/1015 ... new-study/

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/ ... fe-at-gigs

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/agoraphobic ... -interview

etc.

It's in Tez a lot too unfortunately. Or certainly seemed to be the last few times I looked.


Gotcha.

That Beckett Uni article is a classic example of pointless research for research sake: It's PHD students (or similar) trying to make a name for themselves in a field where no proof is required, so you can say anything you like and not be called up on it.

Author:  Clint Ruin [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Re Terrorizer itself, it used to be that dodgy politics were actually talked about and debated: there was a long and somewhat involved wrangle played out over the letters page many years ago where the advisability of featuring a white supremacist band (Spear Of Longinus) kicked off a whole discussion about what the magazine should and shouldn't cover. But it was a debate, first and foremost and even the self-proclaimed white supremacist who wrote in defending it was engaged with rather than shouted down. Nowadays, there would simply be a lot of shouting down, I suspect. The standards of discourse in general seem to get lower every minute. People hiding behind buzzwords and glib little hashtags...

I've always got the impression that this is partly if not entirely an internet thing though; I am at one of the 'worst' (for interference, PC piety and student-politics midgetry) universities in the UK as far as this goes, and no one I know gives a toss about it in reality. Not to say that I hang out with a bunch of racist rapists, but rather, with people who aren't on Twitter all the bloody time.

Author:  Vim Fuego [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

There's always been a bit of an element of both political extremes in metal, it just seems like the left are starting to make more noise now.

I remember back in the early 90s Metal Maniacs magazine refused to interview Glen Benton because of "animal cruelty". There was an instance of someone torturing and killing a kitten in a church. I can't remember if Benton did it or if a fan did, but his crime was not condemning it. Katherine Ludwig, the editor at the time, was a rampant Lefty, being fully vegan and all that stupid crap, and even put a statement in the mag about why they wouldn't be having any Deicide from then on. Didn't bother me greatly, because there was still Terrorizer and other places to read about Deicide, and it lost them a good number of readers, as argued out in their letters pages.

Personally, I couldn't give a fuck about a band's politics, up to the point of blatant racism where I draw the line.

I've never encountered much of the "scene tourist" thing at the extreme end of metal. Yes, there have been fair weather fans into a lot of the more mainstream sounding bands and things over the years, but there's not much of that in death metal or grindcore, just because the music is too much for most people.

Author:  handmadegod [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

I admire the SJW warriors for what difficult job they have of pedaling their garbage on top of avoiding an inevitable contradiction. For example how does a SJW condemn the Orlando attacks without being an "Islamophobe" or how does a SJW defend the attacks without being a "homophobe"!

Right now they're stuck in between a rock and a hard place it seems.

Author:  handmadegod [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

If I could just leave this here...

Image

Author:  Vim Fuego [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Image

Author:  handmadegod [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Stop that immediately Vim, Your rights end where my feelings begin!

Author:  Vim Fuego [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Sorry. Is this better?

Image

Author:  handmadegod [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Image

Author:  Matsui [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Well one of the comments to that article summed it up best

In essence the extreme metal scene tolerated the nazis in NSBM so guess what you will attract some form of opposition to complacency further down the line

This is the chickens comes home to roost

As to what actual damage these so called sjw are achieving? I would want to see actual examples of shows being shut down bands being dropped from labels etc before I take this seriously

The imdustrial scene has had this problem a lot more than metal, it adapts and carries on

Author:  Cuchulainn [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

You know what I found offensive about that article? The cunt's excessive use of the word 'extreme'. Fucking shite term.
I personally couldn't give a fuck what any band sings about or does. If I don't agree with their politics or lyrics or any other old shit, I won't listen to them. Problem solved.

Author:  Stat_Rad [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Matsui wrote:
Well one of the comments to that article summed it up best

In essence the scene tolerated the nazis in NSBM so guess what you will attract some form of opposition to complacency further down the line

This is the chickens comes home to roost

As to what actual damage these so called sjw are achieving? I would want to see actual examples of shows being shut down bands being dropped from labels etc before I take this seriously

The imdustrial scene has had this problem a lot more than metal, it adapts and carries on


fucking hell

Author:  Vim Fuego [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Cuchulainn wrote:
I personally couldn't give a fuck what any band sings about or does. If I don't agree with their politics or lyrics or any other old shit, I won't listen to them. Problem solved.


Most metal fans I know do the same.

If you listen to these people though, us metal fans can't think for ourselves and need saving from the nasty people. :roll:

Author:  robitusson [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Matsui wrote:

As to what actual damage these so called sjw are achieving? I would want to see actual examples of shows being shut down bands being dropped from labels etc before I take this seriously

Agree to a certain extent. I certainly can't think of many direct examples. There's what the article mentions - Antifa setting off some kind of pepper spray at a Taake show in America. There was the Cobalt guy getting pressured to leave the band. Down shows getting cancelled. Disma shows cancelled. It's definitely having a direct impact elsewhere too. Eagles of Death Metal appearances cancelled, Action Bronson cancelled.

But the real damage is one of conformity - insidiously rounding off of any edges to make things "safe". It's all just one more factor in the long, slow demise of metal. The thing was, in the 80's, Tipper Gore was so damn easy to see. Now, that kind of influence is coming from people wearing the right shirts, listening to the cool bands, even playing in them.

Author:  doomrider [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

There is a definite line between artistic expression and openly inciteful behaviour: In my view, Anselmo's behaviour crossed that line. However, the fuss of the EODM comments was/is ridiculous.

Ultimately, it is down to the distros, the record companies, the promoters, and the venues to remain strong in their support of artistic expression, in the face of criticism from the overtly PC brigade.

Does anyone remember the fuss around the album cover to Death to Tyrants by Sick of it All? I seem to remember people questioning their politics, due to the somewhat militaristic iconography. I even exchanged a few messages with Craig Setari on their forum on this issue where he explained the meaning behind it. i was more intrigued, whereas quite a few were going way overboard in their condemnation.

Author:  Stat_Rad [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

SJW's don't belong in metal. They are bored moralistic losers desperately clinging to a false identity of being social crusaders. They are the heroes of their own bullshit narratives.

Metal is not a safe space and these assholes should not be tolerated at all.

Author:  handmadegod [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Decibel: the underground metal scene's SJW problem

Stat_Rad wrote:
SJW's don't belong in metal. They are bored moralistic losers desperately clinging to a false identity of being social crusaders. They are the heroes of their own bullshit narratives.

Metal is not a safe space and these assholes should not be tolerated at all.


I agree. Political correctness doesn't come into it, myself as an individual can either respect other's in light of any differences or I do not and if I do not then it's my own problem.

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