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 Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance).. 
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Storm Trooper
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Post Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)..
At what point does it begin to interfere with your enjoyment? I'm starting this thread because I recently listened to Laibach's Spectre, which came out in 2014, and found it difficult to sit through. To me Laibach are a great example of a band who are loved more for what they represent than what they actually are. i.e a group of mediocre musicians who put out clever but ultimately empty music.

I find it interesting how 'getting the joke' of bands like Laibach and Type O Negative is really tied to a certain elitism about them (i.e the cognoscenti). Type O Negative are musically adept enough to get away with it, and truth be told not all of their music is tongue in cheek, some of it is quite serious, but in the case of Laibach, I feel they have beaten a dead horse for decades with a joke/gimmick that was only interesting given the cultural context from which it arose. i.e Commie block eastern Europe in the 80's. They have pretty much had the same message for 32 years, and they are completely out of date and redundant at this point, even if you relate to their politics.

For those of you who are tempted to tell me that I don't 'get' Laibach, save it: I own 4-5 albums and liked them plenty for a short time in the late 90's/early 00's, but my interest waned as they continued to release ordinary albums with identical lyrical/thematic content.

Can anyone else think of bands whose one dimensional jokey nature gets annoying after a while, or has long overstayed its welcome? What about bands where it works? I find that Les Claypool generally pulls it off and strikes a neat balance, but many find him annoying.

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:56 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Are Laibach a humourous band? Everything I've seen of them points to being a pretentious art-house collective with politics that range from the ambiguous to the downright worrying.

Personally, I dislike overtly humourous music. Always have done. Yes, clever, witty lyrics are great, but music with the sole purpose of being "funny" is nothing more than a novelty act IMO. I guess that's where I draw the line: where the humour becomes the primary reason for the music to exist.

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:23 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
They fit into the 'irony' category, and yes some of their music is intentionally funny. You heard their.cover of The Final Countdown? :lol:

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:27 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Stat_Rad wrote:
Can anyone else think of bands whose one dimensional jokey nature gets annoying after a while, or has long overstayed its welcome? What about bands where it works? I find that Les Claypool generally pulls it off and strikes a neat balance, but many find him annoying.
Agree with Primus. Zappa got away with it and then some when he was "jokey".

On the other hand I can't imagine anyone who avidly listens to the Fat Wreck Chrods 90s type of pop punk that was actually huge at the time. The sound was flippant, the lyrics and themes were trite, the bands were goofy - for the most part it has aged really badly.

I never heard Spectre but Laibach have done some fantastic stuff, Volk particularly. Are they jokey though? I wouldnt have thought so at all.

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:09 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Volk was just ok to me. It was when they started going downhill.

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:18 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
I saw them play a few years ago and I thought their whole schtick really worked - complete with twin uniform-clad go-go dancers on either side of the stage.

Their humour is one of the few things that I can appreciate about Type O - dreadful band on the whole.

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Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:30 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Manowar.


Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:33 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Kontrust works!



Last edited by blacklorre on Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:05 pm
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Not familiar with Laibach, always meant to get around to them, but just haven't. They do kind of seem like a conceptual band more than a musical band.

I've always maintained that Primus' lyrics are often sad and depressing, portraits of failed lives and the jobless bleakness of rural areas, and it's largely their presentation which is wacky rather than their overall 'stance'.

I fucking HATE the 'arch, ironic' stance of British indie history, the Smiths and Blurs and Wedding Presents and Animals That Swim and others too awful even to mention, that horrible mixture of uptight smugness and flatulent bathos. It just shows what a huge gulf there is between being funny and being witty. You can construct all the clever-arse bon mots you want but you'll be amusing no one but yourself. It's musichall, basically, and if there's one facet of UK culture that needs to be sealed in a lead lined box and fired into the centre of the sun, it's musichall.


Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
robitusson wrote:
Stat_Rad wrote:
Can anyone else think of bands whose one dimensional jokey nature gets annoying after a while, or has long overstayed its welcome? What about bands where it works? I find that Les Claypool generally pulls it off and strikes a neat balance, but many find him annoying.
Agree with Primus. Zappa got away with it and then some when he was "jokey".

On the other hand I can't imagine anyone who avidly listens to the Fat Wreck Chrods 90s type of pop punk that was actually huge at the time. The sound was flippant, the lyrics and themes were trite, the bands were goofy - for the most part it has aged really badly.

I never heard Spectre but Laibach have done some fantastic stuff, Volk particularly. Are they jokey though? I wouldnt have thought so at all.


Still love the old Fat Wreck/Epitaph punk myself. Bad Religion, NOFX, Pennywise, The Vandals, Guttermouth still do it for me. I'd got sick of metal at the time because it was dominated by nu-metal stodge and grunge.

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Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:05 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
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On the other hand I can't imagine anyone who avidly listens to the Fat Wreck Chrods 90s type of pop punk that was actually huge at the time. The sound was flippant, the lyrics and themes were trite, the bands were goofy - for the most part it has aged really badly.


I'm going to take issue with that: There were a lot of decent bands on Fat Wreck at that time. Yes, there were some seemingly "novelty" acts, but many were genuinely decent bands.

I think the difference lies in whether you make music to be humourous or whether you use humour in your music. The latter is the better way, IMO.

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Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:45 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
The Sisters Of Mercy. Hilarious.


Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:02 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Clint Ruin wrote:
I've always maintained that Primus' lyrics are often sad and depressing, portraits of failed lives and the jobless bleakness of rural areas, and it's largely their presentation which is wacky rather than their overall 'stance'.


Depends on the song, but there are tunes that definitely fit that description. e.g Bob, Fisticuffs, Vernon The Company Man (from Claypool's Of Whales and Woe) etc

The Sisters of Mercy are an interesting case. There was always a tongue in cheek aspect to them, but you could effectively ignore it on their early work. It's impossible to ignore on Vision Thing though, which probably explains why it alienated so many of their fans at the time.

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Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:36 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
The Macc Lads. "Beer, Sex, Chips & Gravy" and "Bitter Fit Crack" were great but by the time we got to "Alehouse Rock", the joke had worn thin.

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Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:29 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Tankard spring to mind. Yes, beer. And?


Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:55 am
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
I'm always baffled by how proper working-class punk geezers seem to be okay with the Macc Lads considering their lead singer is called Tristan and the whole group were clearly a bunch of plummy Oxbridge types taking the piss out of (what they saw as) the ghastliness of the frightful proles, dahhhhling.


Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:30 pm
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Mucky Pup rule!



Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:07 pm
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Clint Ruin wrote:
I'm always baffled by how proper working-class punk geezers seem to be okay with the Macc Lads considering their lead singer is called Tristan and the whole group were clearly a bunch of plummy Oxbridge types taking the piss out of (what they saw as) the ghastliness of the frightful proles, dahhhhling.


Because, for a time, they had some decent songs.

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Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)
Clint Ruin wrote:
I'm always baffled by how proper working-class punk geezers seem to be okay with the Macc Lads considering their lead singer is called Tristan and the whole group were clearly a bunch of plummy Oxbridge types taking the piss out of (what they saw as) the ghastliness of the frightful proles, dahhhhling.


Unlike most, they did it quite well, so they can be forgiven.


Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:08 pm
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Post Re: Humour/irony in music...(Laibach, elitism and tolerance)


A reason to like The Macc Lads, they piss off Tories.

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Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:34 pm
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