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 Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful? 
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Star Trooper
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Triggmartyr wrote:
I disagree with the arguement that glam became all about technical proficiency on the basis of C.C Deville. The guy only got the Poison gig as he looked the part and his guitar skills were shit. Even Abu Hamza would be a better guitarist.


There was the joke about Ritchie Kotzen (I think it was him?) having to wear boxing gloves to play CC's guitar parts when he joined Poison.

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:25 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
CC was a below average player for his time when judged against other professional guitarists. Kotzen was far better and really shouldn't have been in that band. His association with them probably harmed him in the long run.

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:28 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Stat_Rad wrote:
CC was a below average player for his time when judged against other professional guitarists. Kotzen was far better and really shouldn't have been in that band. His association with them probably harmed him in the long run.


It sounds like he was an absolute cunt at a time when there were a lot of them about too.

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:09 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
CC was sloppy as fuck, although to be fair, within the context of those songs at least, his leads (on record) were perfectly acceptable, if that's your kind of thing.

Live he was fucking awful though. And his solo spot is probably the worst example of guitar playing by a professional musician ever. Even worse than the spastic fingered ginger shit wizard, or Tracy G butchering Blackmore solos like a monkey with sausages nailed to its fingers.

I could never get into Poison though, bar the the title track of the first album, or maybe 'Ride The Wind' but even they wouldn't cut it as a Motley Crue b-side. I'd even take Warrant over Poison. Christ, even fucking Tigertailz managed to work up a bit of gonzoid energy, and were endearingly silly to a point.

The Kotzen stuff was well written and the album sounds really good, and obviously he is a great guitarist, but baldy Bret's voice still grates something awful.

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:48 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
He has improved since the old days, but he is still pretty boring to listen to when he is soloing.

Native Tongue wasn't a bad album at all. It just came out at the wrong time. They also needed to record another album with Kotzen to really figure out their creative direction. N.T sounds transitional.

Poison wrote a few good pop songs and they were decent live when I saw them on the Flesh and Blood tour.

You prefer Warrant? Hmmmm..........tough call.

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Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:14 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
I'd take the first few Warrant records over anything Poison have done. Although I wouldn't bank on me actually listening to them.


Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:48 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Dog Eat Dog is certainly better than Native Tongue.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:12 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Never rated Warrant either. Sick of hearing Cherry Pie, although the bird in the video was fit.

I used to like L.A Guns until they released that shit "hardcore" album...

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Triggmartyr wrote:
Sick of hearing Cherry Pie, although the bird in the video was fit.


Jani Lane wasn't crazy about it either:


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Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:43 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Stat_Rad wrote:
You prefer Warrant? Hmmmm..........tough call.


Well, 'Cherry Pie' is at least as awful as anything Poison ever did. They aren't a band I have any fondness for, but even I can see that 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' - or even something as generic as 'Down Boys' - are infinitely better songs than 'Unskinny Bop'.

Or 'I Won't Forget You', which is all of the more negative aspects of the era summed up in one song - tedious, gutless, cynically motivated fluff with literally no redeeming qualities what-so-fucking-ever.

And Jani Lane, whatever you could say about him, seemed far more self aware, and far less douchebaggy than Bret Michaels, who is one of the most unpleasant people in rock. Never has self regard so outweighed actual talent. Aside from maybe Vince "the very definition of cunt" Neil, and at least he sang on 'Shout At The Devil'.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:02 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Bulletboys were as generic as generic gets. Them and Nelson, Kix and Slaughter.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:46 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Triggmartyr wrote:
the bird in the video was fit.

Jani Lane was bending it up her. He might have complained about Cherry Pie towards the end, but I bet he was glad of it when he was balls deep in her for the first time.


Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:12 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
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Jani Lane was bending it up her. He might have complained about Cherry Pie towards the end, but I bet he was glad of it when he was balls deep in her for the first time.


Yep, I can't feel much sympathy for the guy.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
The One True Wretch wrote:
And Jani Lane, whatever you could say about him, seemed far more self aware, and far less douchebaggy than Bret Michaels, who is one of the most unpleasant people in rock. Never has self regard so outweighed actual talent. Aside from maybe Vince "the very definition of cunt" Neil, and at least he sang on 'Shout At The Devil'.


In Neil's defense, his voice pretty much single-handedly defines an entire genre of music.

Motley Crue were the only band from that era to hold on to a substantial portion of their fan base, and I think that's largely because they never totally wimped out. Yes they did follow trends at times, but their music was still relatively heavy, for better or worse. It also helped that Tommy Lee got a lot of media attention for his extracurricular activities, which kept their name in the press.

I thought their final album, The Saints of Los Angeles, was really quite good and was the updated throwback that New Tattoo should have been.

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Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:35 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
I really liked quite a bit of New Tattoo, and I particularly enjoyed the overall sound of the album. Saints was a good swansong.

Much as I like them generally, I don't know if they ever had a 5/5 album, even if they came close. That said, I'm a huge fan of Shout, and most of the songs on Dr Feelgood and Girls Girls Girls. Too Fast For Love has it's own ramshackle charm too.

And Mick Mars is someone who never gets enough credit really. He had some really interesting tones over the years, and his solos were always tasty as foook, especially 'Too Young To Fall In Love' which is very Blackmore influenced IMO. They really should have had a full time rhythm player though, it would have given them some more power live, and Mars could have stretched out more.

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Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:21 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
The One True Wretch wrote:
I really liked quite a bit of New Tattoo, and I particularly enjoyed the overall sound of the album. Saints was a good swansong.

Much as I like them generally, I don't know if they ever had a 5/5 album, even if they came close. That said, I'm a huge fan of Shout, and most of the songs on Dr Feelgood and Girls Girls Girls. Too Fast For Love has it's own ramshackle charm too.

And Mick Mars is someone who never gets enough credit really. He had some really interesting tones over the years, and his solos were always tasty as foook, especially 'Too Young To Fall In Love' which is very Blackmore influenced IMO. They really should have had a full time rhythm player though, it would have given them some more power live, and Mars could have stretched out more.


I reckon Dr Feelgood is 5 Fists, then Shout.

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Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:32 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
"Shout At The Devil" was their best followed by "Too Fast For Love". Neither came close to being five fisters though. None of their other albums interested me.


Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:19 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Wretch: Mars is definitely an underrated guitarist. He had real swagger as a player but it was always supported by good ideas. I'm curious to hear his upcoming collaboration with Corabi.

New Tattoo was decent but it seemed like they were just trying to wipe the clean rather than finding a way to merge their old and new styles.

Agree that Motley have no 5 fist albums too. I probably wouldn't giving any of them above a 4 personally. Maybe Shout and Dr.Feelgood are 4.5 at a push.

Ok, here goes:

Too Fast 3.5
Shout 4
Theatre 4
Girls 3.5
Dr.Feelgood 4 (maybe 4.5)
Motley Crue 3.5 to 4
Generation 2
New Tattoo 3
Saints 3.5

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Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:53 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
I'm a bit late to the discussion, but yes, I think it is useful.

Only in as much as a genre is effectively a collective adjective. It's a word you use to describe a set of musical characteristics and aesthetics.

Not every black metal band has black members, not every death metal band is dead, no one uses rocks in a rock band etc.

It's like Pirate metal. As silly as you might think it is to filtrate every genre into a niche little box, if someone says to you a band is a pirate metal band you know almost instantly what you're letting yourself in for. Parping accordion synth, folky jig like melodies, tales of heroic quests etc.

Much in the same way that when someone says hair metal, you you instantly picture a band like Poison and Motley Crue and that sort of Hard Rock sound they play.

Whether or not people misuse it is a different matter. But the term itself by virtue of the fact it evokes a connection to a sound and aesthetic in my mind, is entirely useful.

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Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:12 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Do GNR qualify as hair metal? The Trunkster weighs in:


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Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:25 am
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