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 Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful? 
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
That Metal Show was a gigantic circle jerk. It wasn't just Trunk, the entire show felt canned and self congratulatory. He had decent guests on, but they rarely asked hard or interesting questions. They were back patting exercises disguised as interviews.

Stump The Trunk was a ridiculous segment, although he was asked some tough questions at times. You are correct that it just empty egocentricity though. It's also pathetic given the man's age too. That he defines himself by his knowledge of metal trivia and is surrounded by sycophantic overgrown frat boys egging him on. I frequently got the impression that it was originally a sports commentary show that was altered to be a music one by their general demeanor too.

Overall Trunk's value is on the mainstream/commercial end of the genre. He has a lot of perspective on that because he used to work in the industry and retained many of his contacts, which gives him an enormous advantage over most people in the field. He isn't the guy to turn to for anything heavier or more extreme, but at least he doesn't pretend to be.

Perhaps he doesn't see the underground as the 'main game', so to speak, in a similar way to how mainstream film critics often treat non studio films with less importance. Or he could just enjoy conventionally structured melodically driven music and has no interest in venturing outside of that.

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Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:18 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Stat_Rad wrote:
Paul Stanley came across like a bit of a dick during that 'feud', although his comment about That Metal Show was funny. He called it Wayne's World :lol:

As for Steel Panther, I've said it plenty of times on here: they would be more acceptable if they were a young band that started on YouTube and were put together by a bunch of guys that had no idea that hair metal was a completely redundant target for parody.

The founding members of Steel Panther are old enough to know better. They were teens in the 80s and therefore experienced that music firsthand.


Paul Stanley went on Joe Rogan Experience about a year ago and while most of the talk he seemed okay when it came to talking about the music industry he sounded belligerent, deluded and out of touch in general. Other than that it was a fascinating podcast even if I don't care for KISS. The opposite of that was Hetfield was surprisingly down to earth and a bit more clued into how the music industry actually is probably because of the Napster flak all those years ago.

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Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:54 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Stat_Rad wrote:
Overall Trunk's value is on the mainstream/commercial end of the genre. He has a lot of perspective on that because he used to work in the industry and retained many of his contacts, which gives him an enormous advantage over most people in the field. He isn't the guy to turn to for anything heavier or more extreme, but at least he doesn't pretend to be.

Perhaps he doesn't see the underground as the 'main game', so to speak, in a similar way to how mainstream film critics often treat non studio films with less importance. Or he could just enjoy conventionally structured melodically driven music and has no interest in venturing outside of that.


I have no issue with any of that.

But don't act like you aren't covering extreme metal because it isn't what you grew up on, or that the focus of the show is classic hard rock and metal, and then bring on a pop singer just because she happens to wear black eyeliner.

Calling it "That Metal Show" and covering Hatebreed, Avenged Sevenfold or even Phil Anselmo & The Illegals while ignoring a hugely significant period of the genre's history is bullshit, those acts wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the pioneers of extreme metal.

Someone like Death for instance, given their influence, and the fact the band had ties with Testament, or King Diamond, deserved to be on any show calling itself "That Metal Show" starting in 2008.

Even say, Cannibal Corpse could have been covered. It's not like they aren't well known. They have probably sold more records than Hatebreed, and at least as many as the likes of Lamb Of God, so why weren't they on there?

I didn't expect in depth pieces on Master's Hammer or anything.

If you are a metal show dedicated to classic bands from the 70's and 80's. fair enough, but at least be consistent. Call it "The Classic Metal Show" or whatever, and stick to that.

As for his radio show under his own name, that is fair enough, that should be personal preference.

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Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:47 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
TOTW wrote:
Stat_Rad wrote:
Paul Stanley came across like a bit of a dick during that 'feud', although his comment about That Metal Show was funny. He called it Wayne's World :lol:

As for Steel Panther, I've said it plenty of times on here: they would be more acceptable if they were a young band that started on YouTube and were put together by a bunch of guys that had no idea that hair metal was a completely redundant target for parody.

The founding members of Steel Panther are old enough to know better. They were teens in the 80s and therefore experienced that music firsthand.


Paul Stanley went on Joe Rogan Experience about a year ago and while most of the talk he seemed okay when it came to talking about the music industry he sounded belligerent, deluded and out of touch in general. Other than that it was a fascinating podcast even if I don't care for KISS. The opposite of that was Hetfield was surprisingly down to earth and a bit more clued into how the music industry actually is probably because of the Napster flak all those years ago.


Those Joe Rogan podcasts can be pretty good sometimes, and then on others he shows himself up to be an ignorant fool.

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Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:20 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
As an aside, I've met Don Jameison from TMS at some very heavy/extreme metal shows so he's definitely a fan. Why it was not discussed on the show probably came down to sponsors etc.


Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:50 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
I think the reason is obvious: it was Trunk's show. Those guys were just co-hosts. Trunk isn't into extreme metal. That is well known.


Wretch: Good points, but Lamb of God are in a whole different league to C.C in terms of sales and general popularity.

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Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:18 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
They have sold around the same as CC in the US. Granted that was achieved with less albums, but still. Cannibal Corpse are one extreme band that are, if not household names, certainly a part of popular culture. Whether popular culture views them as something to be laughed at rather than admired at is another thing entirely I suppose.

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Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Where are you getting your information? LOG have sold one million in the US alone based on 3 albums. C.C's worldwide stats are 2 million, but the problem with that of course is that that's a figure that comes from the record label.

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Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:11 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
'Around the same'. In terms of metal/extreme music, close enough. Jesus.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:56 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
It isnt around the same, which is reflected in their differing exposure/profile. LOG are way bigger than CC. There is just no getting around that.

I do agree with Wretch's general point that you can't dismiss the influence of these bands though. CC were a big influence on Slipknot, so one can't speak of extreme metal purely in peripheral terms. There needs to be some wider acknowledgement beyond the likes of Meshuggah.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:24 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
This thread has had some interesting food for thought, and with the mention of Ugly Kid Joe earlier, I cannot help but think of the whole "grunge killing hair metal" story line and think of how close some of the early 'grunge' bands came to glam/hair metal both sonically and visually, though perhaps closer to G'N'R, which I guess goes back to that argument of how much they truly belong there as they kind of threw out a lot of the hair metal tropes that most would generally consider cringe inducing (primarily the image turned to 11 and the 'hit' power ballad), and were perhaps more in line with the earlier progenitors of the style.

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At the end of the day, I can actually appreciate some of the songs and have a soft spot for a few of the bands (though fuck people who call early-Van Halen a hair/glam band. Just sayin'), and if it's your thing than that's cool. Though personally I feel you need to have a little bit of a sense of humour about it (I think a lot of the guys involved in it do, to an extent, though I'm sure they'd appreciate some acknowledgement that it's not as simple as it seems).

That could be said about a lot of metal sub-genres (if you are inclined to class glam/hair metal under the metal umbrella, and you could make the case that it has far more in common with rock of the period than some of the more underground styles coming up around then). Because, let's face it, something like black metal is a pretty easy target with the visual image (despite it's 'malevolence'), or the studs and leather of Judas Priest & co., and the list goes on.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:36 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Chinese Whispers wrote:
This thread has had some interesting food for thought, and with the mention of Ugly Kid Joe earlier, I cannot help but think of the whole "grunge killing hair metal" story line and think of how close some of the early 'grunge' bands came to glam/hair metal both sonically and visually, though perhaps closer to G'N'R, which I guess goes back to that argument of how much they truly belong there as they kind of threw out a lot of the hair metal tropes that most would generally consider cringe inducing (primarily the image turned to 11 and the 'hit' power ballad), and were perhaps more in line with the earlier progenitors of the style.


There was some degree of crossover during that time between so called 'hair metal' bands and 'alternative' bands. Observe:

Image

^^Let's go back to UGK, an example mentioned on here a few times. You can't look at that picture and label them as hair metal, but if you listen to Crane's voice on songs like Everything About You, it's impossible to not get a Sunset Strip rock vibe from it, even if it's not as over the top as the sound delivered by Motley Crue. That snotty attitude is there.

Many bands like UGK experienced brief success during that transitional period. UGK continued to be successful even after Nirvana broke, but 93 was the year that grunge really dominated rock radio, so by the time they returned in 95 with a much heavier album they were already old news. Their sunny-aggro Cali vibe wasn't appreciated in the mid 90's, which was a pretty dark time for rock in general really.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:46 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Solaris wrote:
'Around the same'. In terms of metal/extreme music, close enough. Jesus.


Seven figures is pretty fucking impressive for either band.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:05 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Stat_Rad wrote:
Chinese Whispers wrote:
This thread has had some interesting food for thought, and with the mention of Ugly Kid Joe earlier, I cannot help but think of the whole "grunge killing hair metal" story line and think of how close some of the early 'grunge' bands came to glam/hair metal both sonically and visually, though perhaps closer to G'N'R, which I guess goes back to that argument of how much they truly belong there as they kind of threw out a lot of the hair metal tropes that most would generally consider cringe inducing (primarily the image turned to 11 and the 'hit' power ballad), and were perhaps more in line with the earlier progenitors of the style.


There was some degree of crossover during that time between so called 'hair metal' bands and 'alternative' bands. Observe:

Image

^^Let's go back to UGK, an example mentioned on here a few times. You can't look at that picture and label them as hair metal, but if you listen to Crane's voice on songs like Everything About You, it's impossible to not get a Sunset Strip rock vibe from it, even if it's not as over the top as the sound delivered by Motley Crue. That snotty attitude is there.

Many bands like UGK experienced brief success during that transitional period. UGK continued to be successful even after Nirvana broke, but 93 was the year that grunge really dominated rock radio, so by the time they returned in 95 with a much heavier album they were already old news. Their sunny-aggro Cali vibe wasn't appreciated in the mid 90's, which was a pretty dark time for rock in general really.


They looked more like Faith No More.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:07 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
UGK?

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:25 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
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Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:32 am
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Does it really get more glam than UGK?

Interestingly with Ugly Kid Joe, their cover of "Cats In The Cradle" is often mistaken for Guns N' Roses (and also strangely the original by Harry Chaplin is often mistaken for Cat Stevens).

They certainly had that snottiness that G'N'Rs and Skid Rows had vocally around that same time, but I hear just as much Living Colour or Primus, even Act III era Death Angel instrumentally, etc. (focus on memorable riffs, funkier grooves that were starting to pop up). And they had a sense of humour that glam/hair bands rarely had. I'd even hazard a guess that the "Black Album" played a far bigger influence, and as previously suggested probably Faith No More as well. There are certainly traces of what the Sunset Strip scene had to offer, but it was just pushed through a larger filter for the most part.

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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
As much as I dislike Ugly Kid Joe, they had absolutely nothing to do with the "hair metal" scene we are discussing. Whilst we're on that era, neither did the likes of Love/Hate. Both were, essentially, GnR/Skid Row-lite, and none of them should be mentioned in the same sentence as Britny Fox, Danger Danger, Pretty Boy Floyd, Warrant etc.

All of this is just evidence towards the fact "hair metal" is a useless term.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:52 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Chinese Whispers wrote:
At the end of the day, I can actually appreciate some of the songs and have a soft spot for a few of the bands (though fuck people who call early-Van Halen a hair/glam band. Just sayin')


Early VH ARE basically a proto-hair metal band, though. I'll admit that they have more charm than the legions of Sunset Strip clones who followed them in the 80s, but their influence on the hair rock scene cannot be denied. Aside from the obvious lyrical themes, one of the main things that VH brought to rock music was the general theme of prioritising technical skill and flashy playing over actual song writing and memorable tunes, and this is a trait that can be found in every hair band video on Youtube.

It's just hair metal ten years early.


Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:20 pm
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Post Re: Hair metal: is the term accurate or useful?
Cinderella were a genuinely good band, though, despite their links to the hair scene.


Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:24 pm
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