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 Terrorizer free gift suggestions 
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Super Trooper
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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
^Not romantic then but Romantic. Sorry but if you're being pedantic I will be. As I'm sure you know too JCC the Gothic is a literary tradition all of its own which is linked to the rise of Romanticism but is distinct.
Describing things as "gothic" is fine, as soon as something is called "Goth" you get all kinds of people being pissy about definitions, which is silly.

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Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:59 pm
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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
Goff chicks rulez!!!1!!

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Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:06 pm
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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
It's all well and good, but the definitions of these sub-cultural movements always seem to change. How many times has someone come around proclaiming that Iron Maiden isn't metal, but in fact hard rock or something. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong about the goth thing cause you could make a case either way.

As far as a gift suggestion, an issue actually worth reading would be a surprise.

Please don't ban me from the forum cause I dissed the mag, I only jest. :|

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Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:24 am
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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
JCC wrote:

Wolf Bender wrote:
Describing things as "gothic" is fine, as soon as something is called "Goth" you get all kinds of people being pissy about definitions, which is silly.
Only about as silly as if someone came on here proclaiming that they are a metalhead because they like My Chemical Romance. Is it silly to correct that misapprehension? No, so SHURRUP

I wasn't having a go at you old bean, I was saying just how silly it is to say "yeah I'm a Goth" or "this is Goth music, that isn't" at all.

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Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
Wolf Bender wrote:
JCC wrote:

Wolf Bender wrote:
Describing things as "gothic" is fine, as soon as something is called "Goth" you get all kinds of people being pissy about definitions, which is silly.
Only about as silly as if someone came on here proclaiming that they are a metalhead because they like My Chemical Romance. Is it silly to correct that misapprehension? No, so SHURRUP

I wasn't having a go at you old bean, I was saying just how silly it is to say "yeah I'm a Goth" or "this is Goth music, that isn't" at all.


Right, this turned out a bit more epic than I intended, but anyway...

Having been well and truly into the whole 'goth' thing for many, many (some would say too many) years I've got a bit to say about this. The goth 'scene' sprang up out of punk, that is true, but the same is true of so much post '77, but has it's roots both musically and aesthetically before that (as do many of the post punk movements). To define the 'goth' scene as being purely about listening to a few bands that are considered 'goth rock' is actually doing the scene a grave(hurrrr) injustice.

The 'goth' scene as it was embraced so many different types of music, from the gritty sounds of UK Decay, Alien Sex Fiend and 1919, the more electronic and almost new romantic sound of The Danse Society, the rockier acts like The Sisters and Red Lorry Yellow Lorry right through to the more folky side of things with bands like All About Eve, world music with Dead Can Dance and the avant garde with acts like Premature Ejaculation. It was fairly par for the course to see Tom Waits and The Cramps sitting next to Skinny Puppy and DI6 records in any 'goth's' record collection.

'Goth' was always a much broader scene than it has ever been given credit for and was more of a banner term for anything a bit different, much like the 'doom' scene these days (personally I see Sunn 0))) and later day Earth to be perfectly in line with the 'goth' scene and 'doom' in it's current form is, in my opinion, the natural inheritor of 'goth'). There were several 'satellite scenes' that went with goth. Death rock (Christian Death etc.), dream pop (Cocteau Twin etc.), electric body music (Front 242 etc.) and industrial (Controlled Bleeding etc.). Each was as much a part of the scene as the others and would all fall under the 'goth' umbrella. If you asked you would normally get a curt response along the lines of "I'm not a goth, I'm into _____", but we were all 'goths'.

Even the look of 'goth' was open to interpretation, you had the Specimen death hawk brigade, the Fields of the Nephilim 'post apocalyptic cowboys', the Bauhaus vampires and the Skinny Puppy rivet heads all sharing the same 'scene' and listening to the same bands. Gothic litriture and gothic/neo-gothic architecture had a massive influence on the aesthetic of of the 'goth' scene, that's kind of where the name comes from. The imagery that went with the sort of music made by bands like Bauhaus and Faith/Pornography ere Cure was very much in line with that conjured up gothic writing.

One of the reasons, in my opinion, 'goth' has endured as a scene is because it is adaptable to whatever each generation wants from it. The appeal of the imagery will always appeal to teenagers but it's the musics ability to take in new influences that has always been it's strength. When people talk about 'goth' now they tend to be talking about something that is totally different to what me and my friends were into in a musical/aesthetic sense, but the influences and concepts are pretty much the same. After the bomb goes off there will still be cockroaches and there will still be goths. It's only in the last 10 or so years that music has been divided, sub-divided and sub-sub-divided to the ridiculous point it is now. The fact that there is a scene actually called 'scene' is testimony to how daft genre categorisation has got. If you try and look at 'goth' through that filter the scene will seem contradictory and lack any sort of cohesion. Twenty or thirty years ago (even ten or fifteen years ago) genre definition wasn't as set in stone as it is now. I think it's important to keep that in mind when dissecting 'old' scenes like 'goth', 'punk' and even 'metal'.

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Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
This is going to be another long one I'm afraid. I'm basically dissecting the genre I grew up with!! :lol:

There is a stylistic similarity with a lot of those bands but then you have acts like Diamanda Galas at one end of the spectrum and The Mission at the other. 'Goth' was a very broad reaching scene and wasn't restricted by the same genre constraints people put on music now. The 'goth' scene included every thing from electronica through to rock all linked by a common aesthetic more than anything else. To say a goth band must sound like 'x' is to kind of miss a huge chunk of what the scene was about. For example, All About Eve were a goth band, in the late 80s they were one of the goth bands, and there is a large swath of modern 'goth' bands influenced by them. Die Laughing, Incubus Succubus, Sunshine Blind and Faith and the Muse are a few I can think of off the top of my head. Bands like Nightwish (I hasten to add I really don't like bands like Nightwish and Within Temptation) are pretty much direct descendants of All About Eve, both musically and stylistically (and not just because they are fronted by a woman).

The modern goth metal scene is very different from the 'goth' scene I was into but the share as much aesthetically and in conceptually with the old goth bands (all be it the latter day 'old' goth bands) as any of the 'old' goth bands share with each other. They are different sides of the same coin. To put it in perspective a friend of mine is insistent that Fields of the Nephilim and latter day Sisters of Mercy do not belong in the same genre as Bauhaus and The Virgin Prunes, I can see his point. As far as he's concerned 'it all went wrong with Floodland' and everything from that point onwards isn't goth. The point is that any scene that survives for any length of time will adapt and change which will mean that it means different things to different people, mainly depending on when they get into it. How many arguments about what's metal and what isn't have you seen? The same thing applies here. As much as both Led Zeppelin and Cannibal Corpse can be called 'metal' so Nightwish and The Bomb Party can be called 'goth'. Basically describing 'goth' as 'way of being' is an incredibly pretentious way of saying that 'goth' is a loose collection of bands that share some common musical or stylistic ground.

To illustrate what I mean...





They're different but there's a lot that links those two together. Much like...





Which leads on to the whole new romantic thing. 'Goth' and New Romantic cropped up at about the same time and to start off with a lot of the 2nd wave goth bands (Specimen, Virgin Prunes, Sex Gang Children. Basically all the Batcave bands) sounded similar to the 1st wave new romantic bands...





I went for those two bands because they're the ones with the most obvious glam influence from their respective scenes (Specimen's Beauty of Poison is just an outright glam track). But, it wasn't too long before the two scenes not only became musically but also stylistically different...





Musically Danse Society stayed a lot closer to the popier new romantic sound of those earlier goth bands as did Gene Loves Jezabel. Anyway, the point is that a scene that can include bands as varied as Shriekback, Joy Division and New Model Army can also be considered to take in more recent acts like Nightwish. 'Goth' has always had a more mainstream end of things, All About Eve, The Mission and so on, and a more underground (and generally better) scene. Nightwish are to Faith and the Muse what The Mission were to Play Dead. Do I like these modern 'goth' bands? No. But I can see the link. Even though the scene now is very different from the scene I was into they are very clearly connected. There's over thirty years between 'goth' first cropping up and where we are now, things have to change or they stagnate.

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Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:35 pm
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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
AAW, this is nice. Like being back in the old Dim. :cry:

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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
What a great thread,full of young retards trying to explain what goth is.
The Sisters are goth,despite whatever Von might say,the Neffs are goth.Bauhaus are goth.Anything with a distorted metal guitar sound isn't goth (except for the Sisters of course).Anything with female vocals apart from Skeleta lFamily or the Eves isn't goth.That's you Nightwish!
And The Mission of cousre are uber goth! But noone mentioned them,so I'll go back to sleep.

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Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:44 pm
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Post Re: Terrorizer free gift suggestions
ribbons69 wrote:
And The Mission of cousre are uber goth! But noone mentioned them,so I'll go back to sleep.


Yes I did.

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WarrenSchofield wrote:
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I'd do Barbara Windsor.


Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:46 pm
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